|
|
|
| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
|
|
Thanks Pharmboy and Psalm 144. |
|
|
|
|
Posted on 10/04/2011 9:00:38 AM PDT by Pharmboy
Chasing Cornwallis out of the South would have had an effect, for sure, but the shock of his surrender is what convinced most in Britain to cut their losses and get out.
It's not "almost" right. It's completely right. I grew up in NY State. I went to college pretty close to "Saratoga." I've been attending the races there for 45 years. I know what I am talking about.
ML/NJ
Well, if you’ve been going to the track there for a while, you must remember the wonderful sliced roast beef sandwiches served up back in the 1970s. And the Big Red Spring.
I've been going since before there was a Big Red Spring or even a Big Red.
The food choices are MUCH better now (though they were better in 2010 than this year I think). As for roast beef, I remember something called the "Carving Board." It was okay, I guess. The Hatties Fried Chicken Sandwich now is a meal; and there are beaucoup other choices too.
(And BTW, I love the water!)
ML/NJ
Hey I was on your side.
However,
“that name derives from the local springs that were near the old town of Saratoga, now Schuylerville.”
As I said, Saratoga Springs - not Schuylerville AKA Old Saratoga - was FAMOUS for its very real springs (before racing).
BTW, “Big Red” is for MAN O’WAR, the 1st and only true Big Red, for which the spring was named. All others including Secretariat are imposters.
Anyone who thinks the spring at the track was named for Man o'War is truly delusional.
(FTR, I never saw Man o'War run. I did see Secretariat. He was good, to be sure, but I did see him lose three times.)
ML/NJ
Delusional? Really? Pray tell. It’s always my understanding it is a Man O’War reference.
http://www.racingmuseum.org/hall-of-fame/man-o-war.asp
Search “big red”.
|
|
|
| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
|
|
|
Thanks Pharmboy and Psalm 144. |
|
|
|
|
Maybe "delusional" was a bit strong. But for more than 50 years after Man o'War retired there was no Big Red Spring. It showed up two years (I think) after Secretariat retired. It was probably just a big coincidence,
ML/NJ
I believe it was there in 1966.
And that is what the HOF says about the spring - MOW.
You believe wrong.
Have a look at this picture. (Linked rather than posted in line because of the picture's size) There's a plaque on the structure that says it was moved there in 1975. (I was off by a year.)
And think about how stupid all those other sites would be that say the spring was named for both Man o'War and Secretariat if it had been there since 1966! Secretariat was foaled in 1970.
ML/NJ
I see many different bits of info. Many people DO repeat falsehoods, BTW. The HOF site is the best authority I’ve searched yet and it says it’s named for MOW.
This book (1994) has a caption for a pix I cannot see:
Notice the plaque in your pix says Excelsior PAVILLION, not spring. The pavillion itself was moved probably to cover it. The book above says the Big Red SPRING was drilled 1966 (but this is so far the only reference I found).
But, I never knew that Man 'O War was also known as Big Red, so I did certainly learn something.
http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/08/18/news/doc4e4dc13079ae1659931373.txt
“The red-and-white wooden Excelsior Spring Pavilion that surrounds the spring was built in 1859 and moved to its current location in 1975.”
c.1887 book, Page 49 (text) and 50 (pix having pavilion looking like Big Red).
(It’s fun doing some research....I tripped upon something in an old travel book (c1900?) referring to “Excelsior Geyser” in Yellowstone as the biggest in the world, and referred to the 1888 big eruption which is photographed on Wiki.)
MOW was the original, and others co-opted the nickname (although it is common for a pet name), but it was/is well known by racing fans.
All the solid evidence I’m googling (see prior) as well as casual racing talk on the racing forums over the decade seems to point to it being named for MOW - the HOF page (which better be correct), as well as books on the springs (built in ‘66 before there was a Secretariat) and so forth.
ML/NJ
Well, I remember my buddy pointing it out to me after Secretariat had been a favorite up there, but not seeing it before. If ml/nj and I are incorrect, I know I am surprise and so is he!
Bottom line is when was the spring built, and when was it named (which may be different). If they are before 1973, unquestionably it was meant for MOW (speaking of legends/favorites at Saratoga - MOW ran 4x at 2yo and 2x at 3yo as well as being purchased there, where Sec ran 3x and once, respectively).
Unless that spring is very young, I’m guessing as his pet name was co-opted from MOW, honoring Sec was tacked onto what already existed. I’ll bet the track people decided they’d include Sec in the honoring after the fact since he was seen as such a superhorse having the same pet name.
Phar Lap is the other well-known “Big Red”, 10 years after MOW.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
