Old text, new wrinkles: Did Butch Cassidy survive?

Yahoo News/AP ^ | 8/15/11 | Mead Gruver

[wagglebee]

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) — Did Butch Cassidy, the notorious Old West outlaw who most historians believe perished in a 1908 shootout in Bolivia, actually survive that battle and live to old age, peacefully and anonymously, in Washington state? And did he pen an autobiography detailing his exploits while cleverly casting the book as biography under another name?

A rare books collector says he has obtained a manuscript with new evidence that may give credence to that theory. The 200-page manuscript, "Bandit Invincible: The Story of Butch Cassidy," which dates to 1934, is twice as long as a previously known but unpublished novella of the same title by William T. Phillips, a machinist who died in Spokane in 1937.

Utah book collector Brent Ashworth and Montana author Larry Pointer say the text contains the best evidence yet — with details only Cassidy could have known — that "Bandit Invincible" was not biography but autobiography, and that Phillips himself was the legendary outlaw.

Others aren't convinced.

"Total horse pucky," said Cassidy historian Dan Buck. "It doesn't bear a great deal of relationship to Butch Cassidy's real life, or Butch Cassidy's life as we know it."

[dfwgator]

The fall will probably kill you!

No it won't. But the sudden stop, will.

[wagglebee]

Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you!

That scene was hysterical, but I think the funniest was, "You think you used enough dynamite there Butch?"

[andy58-in-nh]

I suppose one can forgive the producers for having chosen that awful, B.J. Thomas "one-hit wonder" song, given the fact that it was 1969 and everyone in Hollywood was smoking so much pot that simply walking down La Cienega Boulevard could give you a contact high. Considering also the state of AM radio at that time, it easily might have been even worse. Two words: Sugar, Sugar.

[al baby]

OH Noes? not SUGAR SUGAR

[wordsofearnest]

“Can I move, I shoot better when I move”

[andy58-in-nh]

Even worse: Good morning, Starshine. The Earth says, "Hello"!

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks wagglebee. In a word, no. The 200-page manuscript, "Bandit Invincible: The Story of Butch Cassidy," ... by William T. Phillips, a machinist who died in Spokane in 1937... Brent Ashworth and... Larry Pointer say the text contains... details only Cassidy could have known... and that Phillips himself was the legendary outlaw. That's such an obvious oxymoron, but let me elucidate -- if only B.C. could have known the details, there's no verification that the details are anything but fiction; and if the details just happen to also be known to Ashworth and Pointer, then there's no telling how many others (including those with no financial interest in the tale) knew those very same details. The fact is, Butch wrote an unknown number of letters during the exile of the "family of three", some of which have survived. None of them postdate the big Bolivian shootout. Weird coincidence, huh? ;') The apocryphal tales of Butch alive in the US during the 1930s probably stem from the fact that at least a couple of his brothers were dead ringers for Butch, and passed themselves off as Butch, and were supported by various childhood friends who couldn't tell the difference. It's like the D.B. Cooper or Zodiac Killer stories, in its way. :') To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[Gator113]

Cool find!

[Gator113]

Cool find!

[eartrumpet]

“There’s always some nut who claims he’s someone famous.”

Mark Twain mentioned that in Roughing It:

“We crossed the sand hills near the scene of the Indian mail robbery and massacre of 1856, wherein the driver and conductor perished, and also all the passengers but one, it was supposed; but this must have been a mistake, for at different times afterward on the Pacific coast I was personally acquainted with a hundred and thirty-three or four people who were wounded during that massacre, and barely escaped with their lives. There was no doubt of the truth of it—I had it from their own lips. One of these parties told me that he kept coming across arrow-heads in his system for nearly seven years after the massacre; and another of them told me that he was struck so literally full of arrows that after the Indians were gone and he could raise up and examine himself, he could not restrain his tears, for his clothes were completely ruined. “

[SuzyQue]

And, in that vein, there’s always the never-to-be-topped “Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I’ve Got Love In My Tummy.”

[wildbill]

Yeah, the sister was in at least one documentary I’ve seen and claimed he returned from Bolivia to the US and died here.

I guess she could be lying to get some fame herself, but I think she’d claimed this long before the TV people came calling.

[Scoutmaster]

B.J. Thomas "one-hit wonder"

"Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" may be a dreadful song, but B.J. Thomas was anything but a "one-hit wonder."

Thomas had two Billboard Hot 100 #1 songs ("Raindrops" and "(Hey Won't You Play) Another Somebody Done Somebody Wrong Song").

He had another three in the Billboard top ten ("I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry," "Hooked on a Feeling," and "I Just Can't Help Believing").

In all, B.J. Thomas had twelve Billboard Top 40 hits on the 'regular' Billboard charts.

If you include the Billboard Adult Contemporary Chart (with songs like "No Love At All," "Mighty Clouds of Joy," "Rock and Roll Lullaby"), he had four #1 Billboard hits, twelve Top Ten songs, and thirty Top 40 hits.

That's not counting his Billboard Country hits, where he had three number #1 singles (including "New Looks from an Old Lover" and "Two Car Garage") and other hits.

No, B.J. Thomas was not a one-hit wonder.

[Scoutmaster]

“Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I’ve Got Love In My Tummy.”

I'll see your Yummy and raise you a "Billy Don't Be A Hero" by Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods, who truly were one-hit wonders.

“Yummy, Yummy, Yummy, I’ve Got Love In My Tummy" was by the Ohio Express and doesn't count as a one-hit wonder. Although the Ohio Express was a group of studio musicians and the line-up changed from recording to recording (as was the case with most of the bubble gum bands), the Ohio Express had five Top 40 songs.

Not even 7 a.m. here and my useless knowledge about pre-1980 popular music is washing over me.

[andy58-in-nh]

You’re correct - I went back and looked at the charts after my post and realized I had completely forgotten some of those others. Not a huge body of work, but certainly not the 1910 Fruit Gum Company, either. I was also unaware that he’d recorded the Hank Williams classic.

[Scoutmaster]

I was also unaware that he’d recorded the Hank Williams classic.

Well, he wasn't Hank Williams, but B.J. Thomas's version is pretty good. Thomas had an excellent and distinctive voice (think back to "Hooked On A Feeling").

And he may have had a huge body of work but across all Billboard Charts he had six #1 hits. The Beatles only had twenty #1 hits, all in the Billboard Hot 100. Elvis had only twenty-one - but unlike the Beatles, he spread his #1 hits across country, adult contemporary, gospel, and Hot 100. (Yes, George Strait has something like 57 #1 hits, all in country).

And Thomas recorded 51 albums, which isn't a paltry number.

Were we talking about Butch Cassidy?

[SuzyQue]

How could I have forgotten that one? But, I’m trying to now...

[Scoutmaster]

My numbers on Elvis are wrong - just for the record.

[andy58-in-nh]

Were we talking about Butch Cassidy?

LOL. Yeah, but how many #1 hits did he have?

[bgill]

Smart man, that Clemens.