Astounding formations, Bolivia, S. America

Atlantis Bolivia ^

[djf]

I was doing some web research on prehistoric formations in South America and hit the above website.

It has possibly hundreds of satellite images of what cannot in any sense be natural glyphs and structures on the grounds surrounding Lake Tititaka.

Here is a sample:



Whoever made these artifices, and at what age/time they were made, remain unknown. Literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of square miles of formations.

I know some FReepers are interested in this subject, it certainly seems to me that it might make a bit of a mockery out of any claims that a couple guys crossed the Bering Strait 8000 years ago and that's what started culture in the Western Hemisphere.

Take a look at the pics... they are truly jaw-dropping!

[blam]

"I highly recommend the book 1491, a discussion of the pre-Columbus history of the Americas. Large areas of the continent that we assume were largely uninhabited prior to the arrival of the white man actually supported massive populations, including much of the Amazon."

Good book.

Posted to FR nine years ago:

1491

[Brookhaven]

This photo looks to be retouched (imho).

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the darkened areas seem to form a pattern (looks like a guy on a motorcycle to me). They were darkened specificly to make them jump out and form an impression.

If you step back and look at the entire picture, you can see several “images” (there is at least one clear human head, as well as a large hand).

As someome pointed out, there patterns are the result of what has been a common farming technique in the area for centuries.

IMHO, this is no different that looking at clouds. Look up at the clouds, and you’ll see all kinds of images Some people used to think this was proof that God existed, because he put images in the clouds. The truth is it is the result of coincidence and human imagination.

Look at any google shot of neighborhood streets, and you’ll have the same effect. You’ll see images in the street patterns.

Humans look for patterns in everything. These patterns in the farming rows are just due to human imagination, nothing more.

[roamer_1]

I mean something about this simply doesn’t fit the standard archeological and cultural and migrational considerations that have been offered.

as a student of human migration patterns on a much larger scale, I might add that your statement has been my own opinion more often than not.

[blam]

"The issue is hotly debated, but it seems likely many portions of the Americas were much more densely populated than we usually think, and some, like the Amazon and the Four Corners region of the US, more so than today. Most areas were not explored by Europeans till well after the massive die-offs caused by the plagues, so they thought they were exploring regions that had “always” been empty."

There were huge populations in the Amazon basin, millions and millions.

[blam]

"When the Spanish arrived, most of these terraces were either in use or very recently abandoned, as the first wave of the plagues had swept into S. America only a year or two earlier."

Plagues that repeatedly killed millions, like in this article explains:

Historical Review: Megadrought And Megadeath In 16th Century Mexico (Hemorrhagic Fever)

"The epidemic of cocoliztli from 1545 to 1548 killed an estimated 5 million to 15 million people, or up to 80% of the native population of Mexico (Figure 1). In absolute and relative terms the 1545 epidemic was one of the worst demographic catastrophes in human history, approaching even the Black Death of bubonic plague, which killed approximately 25 million in western Europe from 1347 to 1351 or about 50% of the regional population."

The cocoliztli epidemic from 1576 to 1578 cocoliztli epidemic killed an additional 2 to 2.5 million people, or about 50% of the remaining native population."

[Brookhaven]

“Small strokes fell great oaks.”

I think you underestimate what can be accomplished via persitance and time.

With generation after generation of farmers in the area working on these fields, they could easily have built these structures over time (say over a thousand year period).

[Cvengr]

What do you mean by massive?

[Brookhaven]

I am saying this is pretty much beyond anything we see in Europe or the Middle East. Just by it’s very scale, we have to acknowledge some kine of technologies that no one else has yet.

Are you kidding?

We're talking farmland here. Entire forests were cleared and turned into farmland in Europe using nothing more than an ax and strong backs.

As far as the location goes, has anyone considered this: Native Americans never developed hot metal forging. They only knew how to cold forge metals, which only worked on very soft metals like gold. Those types of metals are useless for making cutting tools (this is the reason why when the Spanish landed they were met by natives carrying swords made of wood & stone chips).

In other words, Native Americans never developed the metal ax or saw. Without which, it would be extremely difficult to clear a forest to turn it into farmland (as was done in the Eastern hemisphere). On the other hand, plows made of wood were comonly used in the Eastern hemispere, so there isn't any technological reason Native Americans couldn't have created huge farms, as long as the land was naturally cleared of trees.

So without the ability to clear forests, where do you put your farmland? Obviously, places that aren't forested. As the population grew, those places become harder and harder to find. Until eventually even areas above the tree line on mountains start to be used.

No great mystery about why they would choose this location for farmland. The fact that it would be naturally unforested would make it a good candidate as farmland.

[Sherman Logan]

Massive = 90%+ population reductions in less than a century.

A previous poster lists a single epidemic reducing population by 50%, similar to that of the Black Death in Europe.

The difference is that the native Americans weren’t hit by a single plague, but by repeated epidemics of different diseases. 50% here, and then 25% of the survivors a few years later, and then 20% of the survivors a few years after that, and you’re approaching 90% pretty quickly.

What happened to the original Americans isn’t hard to understand. The Plague of Athens, in Pericles’ time, the Plague of Justinian, the Black Death, smallpox and multiple others had hit the Old World centuries apart. Populations, while often reduced by 25 to 50%, had time to recover and adjust between epidemics.

The New World got hit by essentially all these diseases in less than a century. Entire civilizations and peoples disappeared long before a single European contacted them. Those who survived went through a spiritual crisis unrivaled in history. Just look at the psychological impacts of the Black Death in Europe and magnify it by a couple orders of magnitude.

Many of the “primitive” peoples the Europeans ran into may have been no such thing. They were the traumatized survivors of the demographic equivalent of a nuclear war.

[B4Ranch]

ping

[Conan the Librarian]

I would also recommend “The Lost City of Z” by David Grann.

It covers the story of Percy Fawcett and his exploration of the Amazon. It also deals with new discoveries about the folks that lived all over the Amazon Basin.

AS for the rest, we know there were many ancient civilizations all over the Andes region until the peaceful Incas ‘encouraged’ them to join the empire.

[ctdonath2]

Snow accumulates fresh water at high altitudes, then releases it at an opportune time (spring) in large yet tempered rates. If you can’t pump water up, nor have good low altitude sources of it, build your farm up near the snowpack and build terraces & irrigation to take advantage of timely runoff of fresh clean water. The higher the farm plot, the greater the volume and quality of water available, as mountain peaks concentrate the snow in relatively small areas.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Humans look for patterns in everything. These patterns in the farming rows are just due to human imagination, nothing more.

Quick joke. Guy goes to a therapist and the therapist starts the session with an ink blot test. 1st picture the guy identifies as a man and a woman making love. 2nd as two guys making love and 3rd as two women.

Therapist: Good God, man, you are obsessed with sex!

Patient: Me?? You are the one drawing the dirty pictures!

[Flag_This]

"Why must you assume that the snow line then was the same as the current one?"

That's a fair point - it's been years since I read the book, so I can't recall if Hapgood discussed this. 30 seconds of research indicates that farmers in the Andes grow potatoes (a staple crop) around 3000-4000 meters above sea level and the current snowline in northern peru is 5,200 meters. I would assume that somewhere between those altitudes there comes a point where potatoes simply can't grow because conditions are just too extreme. The snowline might retreat because the climate was different, but you're still 5,000 meters up.

"Time to think outside the fraudulent "green" box."

Please. Hapgood's book was written long before the greenies were invented.

[B4Ranch]

>>Either way, it conflicted with popular science then and now.<<

Everyone knows that Charles Hapgood was a fruitcake. His theory on "Earth Crust Displacement" was not accepted by the true scientists that know exactly what happened in our history.

Never, ever step out of line if you wish to be respected in your 'community'. You have been warned!

[numberonepal]

Real discoveries by real scientists show that Genesis is correct.

Or the original Sumerian flood stories from which the Genesis accounts were copied.

[So Cal Rocket]

[numberonepal]

...as a student of human migration patterns on a much larger scale...

Then you must know of the Olmecs.

[Cvengr]

If you can’t pump water up, nor have good low altitude sources of it, build your farm up near the snowpack and build terraces & irrigation to take advantage of timely runoff of fresh clean water.

I remember reports from the Donner Party regarding such novel survival methods.

[Cvengr]

Makes sense.