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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
As my earlier Buchanan quote showed, Buchanan obviously disagreed with your interpretation of the order he had Floyd send. I pointed out to non-seq that Floyd's order that you posted included the following instruction:

It is neither expected nor desired that you should expose your own life or that of your men in a hopeless conflict in defense of these forts. If they are invested or attacked by a force so superior that resistance would, in your judgment, be a useless waste of life, it will be your duty to yield to necessity, and make the best terms in your power.

By moving to Sumter, Anderson had placed his men in a basically hopeless, isolated position defending a fort, greatly angered the population around him, and made achieving peace that much more difficult. This was exactly what Buchanan did not want him to do, and Floyd's order had made clear.

If Anderson was afraid of rumors of being attacked by a mob at Moultie before (despite assurances from Charleston leaders that they would disperse such a mob if one were to appear), what did he expect to result from sneaking past the SC picket ship at dusk, overpowering a SC ship's captain, hijacking his boat, and charging workmen at Sumter with fixed bayonets?

Here’s how South Carolinians reacted to Anderson's move to Sumter. From page 8 of the Jan. 1, 1861, New York Times, reporting an article from the Charleston Courier of Dec. 28, 1860. (Italics as reported in the Times):

The newspaper offices were besieged, the hotel halls were thronged, and even the grave and serious gentlemen composing the State Convention shared in the general excitement. On all hands anger and indignation was expressed at the supposed perfidious conduct of the Federal authorities, at whose instance it was first thought the movement was made. The people were greatly incensed at the idea of a willful breach of those assurances of non action which had been volunteered by the Government at Washington and upon which so much reliance and confidence had been placed by the entire population, that every impulse to take the necessary precautions for their own safety had been restrained.

Instinctively men flew to arms. Orders were immediately issued to the following Companies to hold themselves in readiness for service: Washington Light Infantry, Capt. C. H. Simonton; Carolina Light Infantry, Capt. B. G. Pinckney; Meagher Guards, Capt. Ed. McCready, Jr.; altogether forming a portion of the Regiment of Rifles, commanded by Col. J. J. Pettigrew and Major Ellison Capers; also, to the Marion Artillery, Capt. J. G. King; Lafayette Artillery, Capt. J. J. Pope, Jr.; Washington Artillery, Capt. G. H. Walter; German Artillery, Capt. C. Nohrden; all under command of Lieut. W. G. De Saussure; Adjutant, Jas. Simmons, Jr.; Sergeant-Major, E. Prioleau Ravenel; Quartermaster-Sergeant, J. R. Macbeth; Surveyor, A Barbot: Surgeons, P. Gervais Robinson and Middleton Mitchel. Also, the Palmetto Guard, Capt. Thomas Middleton, and Cadet Riflemen, W. S. Elliot.

All the military forces thus ordered out promptly obeyed the summons, and the streets were soon enlivened by the appearance of individual members of the different organizations in their uniforms.

Anderson really escalated tensions by his move and put his president in a difficult position. Another article from that issue of the Times quoted from the Courier as saying:

Maj. Robert Anderson, U. S. A., has achieved the unenviable distinction of opening civil war between American citizens by an act of gross breach of faith.

There's no revocation of Anderson's authority to move to the most defensible position, only a statement that, if attacked and unable to hold out out, he is empowered to surrender.

The word "invested" in Floyd's cable means enclosed or surrounded. Sumter quickly became surrounded by a determined, if not outright angry, superior force. Was that not Anderson's fault? Could he not see what would happen? Anderson's move also caused great dissension in Buchanan's cabinet and resulted in Buchanan having to go back on his word to South Carolinians. Buchanan's promise to South Carolinians to maintain the status quo in the forts was discussed in those contentious cabinet meetings. Buchanan did not deny in those cabinet meetings that he had made those promises according to two of his Northern cabinet members.

But it's noteworthy that Buchanan refused to order Anderson to return to Moultrie …

If you'll remember, several Northern members of Buchanan's cabinet threatened to resign if Buchanan ordered Anderson back to Moultrie. Buchanan had already lost two cabinet members in early December. Two others were leaving or would leave the cabinet under suspicion of corruption (one later defended himself successfully against those charges in court, IIRC). Thus, if Buchanan ordered Anderson back to Moultrie he would have lost six or seven cabinet members in the space of a month. His government basically would have collapsed.

… within a few days had order the Star of the West to reinforce him [Anderson], so it couldn't have been that directly opposed to anything Buchanan wanted.

Not that I trust Buchanan’s public statements particularly, but he did state to Congress in December 1860 that there was no authority in the Congress or any arm of the Federal Government to coerce states. However, events and the cabinet putsch overcame his recognition of the historical limits on the powers of the central government. This resulted in the Star of the West incident. Buchanan later also secretly sent reinforcements to Fort Pickens, but he backed off ordering them into the fort when their mission became publicly known and he was told it would result in a shooting war.

I think in the end, Buchanan was happy to leave the question of war and coercion to Lincoln, who did not shirk from taking actions that were sure to lead to war despite the Constitutional Convention having voted against the coercion of states. Just my opinion.

219 posted on 03/28/2011 10:42:59 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
Glad to see that some people are still at it on this thread. I'd like to turn my question around a little bit in reaction to Obama's speech last night.

The acting President seems to think that the people of Bengazi were just reading poetry when Qadaffi decided to begin attacking them with tanks and planes.

So I wonder: How do the provocations of the Southerners at Fort Sumter and maybe elsewhere compare to the provocations of the anti-Qadaffi rebels?

ML/NJ

220 posted on 03/29/2011 7:10:55 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: rustbucket
As my earlier Buchanan quote showed, Buchanan obviously disagreed with your interpretation of the order he had Floyd send.

If Buchanan's intent was to forbid Anderson to make any move with any of his men, then you'll have to admit that the order of December 22 was very poorly written.

You're a big fan of "Days of Decision," and Klein goes into a great deal of detail about Anderson's rationale for moving his men out to Sumter. To his mind, and in the absence of the clear direction he repeatedly asked for, moving them to a safe place, where he could actually resist for a while, was precisely the correct thing to do, and the thing that most maintained the larger status quo of the United States holding the forts in Charleston Harbor.

This was exactly what Buchanan did not want him to do, and Floyd's order had made clear.

Except Floyd's order doesn't say that. It says that he shouldn't feel obliged to fight to the last man if faced with overwhelming force. Or was all that you say in "the penumbra" of the orders?

If Anderson was afraid of rumors of being attacked by a mob at Moultie before (despite assurances from Charleston leaders that they would disperse such a mob if one were to appear), what did he expect to result from sneaking past the SC picket ship at dusk, overpowering a SC ship's captain, hijacking his boat, and charging workmen at Sumter with fixed bayonets?He expected to be in a more secure place, where a mob couldn't get to him, while a political solution was worked out.

Here’s how South Carolinians reacted to Anderson's move to Sumter...

Like I said before, the hysterical reaction of South Carolinians to just about anything isn't exactly a news flash.

The word "invested" in Floyd's cable means enclosed or surrounded. Sumter quickly became surrounded by a determined, if not outright angry, superior force.

Anderson was no more "invested" in Sumter than he was in Moultrie. In either he was surrounded by a hostile force determined to take possession of the forts which he'd been ordered to hold.

Buchanan did not deny in those cabinet meetings that he had made those promises according to two of his Northern cabinet members.

On the other hand, Buchanan refused to give the South Carolina delegation anything in writing, and they were frustrated by the lack of hard assurances from him.

222 posted on 03/29/2011 9:40:49 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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