Petra is back as Classic Petra (Vanity)

Classic Petra ^ | February 24, 2011 | DJMacWoW

[DJ MacWoW]

The Christian rock band, Petra, has come together again with the original members: Bob Hartman, Greg X Volz, John Lawry, Louie Weaver and Mark Kelly. They have a new CD called Back to the Rock. I have it and it IS classic Petra. There are two new songs, Back to the Rock and Too Big to Fail. The others are redone and STILL GREAT.

They will be on tour but unfortunately, so far it's only a few places in the US.

Thursday June 30 Cornerstone, Chicago, Ill
Sunday July 31 Kingdom Bound, Darien Center, New York
Thursday August 4th Soulfest, Billford, New Hampshire

[Secret Agent Man]

You say God created ALL music.

That must mean, then, according to you, God created thrash music? God created rap, and punk, and death metal? God created satanic rock music?

Really, tell me more.

[Secret Agent Man]

I don’t listen to Kiss, I know they stole Kiss’ riff because I have listen to another christian fellow point out that fact. He played a small part of the Kiss video of that particular song, and then played Petra’s song where they clearly played the exact same riff. I know it because someone showed me the evidence, not because I listen to Kiss.

So thanks for playing.

[Secret Agent Man]

You are still in denial, and it’s clear to me you do not have godly discernment.

I’m done with you. Take care.

[DJ MacWoW]

If the words are the most important thing, then whatever style of music used should be totally unimportant.

And that has been my point.

If the musicians are aware of this, why do they only perform the songs in one style of music?

That ranks right up there with some of the dumbest things I have ever been asked.

They could reach so many others if they made albums across all different music styles

They have reached people. Just not in a way that you approve of.

As christians they’d realize this and want to reach others who didn’t like one style of music

Why are you questioning their calling? Who are you to do such a thing? You have no idea of the seeds that they've planted because of their LYRICS. But God knows. And THAT is all that counts.

Godpleaser

So many voices telling me which way to go
So many choices come from those who think they know
There's a way that seems right to a man, but it only brings him death
I wanna go the way that leads to life till I draw my dying breath
Don't wanna be a manpleaser
I wanna be a Godpleaser
I just wanna have the wisdom to discern the two apart
Don't wanna be a manpleaser
I wanna be a Godpleaser
I just wanna do the things that please the Father's heart
Some make a sacrifice and never let it show

Some make a point of letting everybody know
Some will live their lives as unto men, and they have their reward
I just wanna do everything I do with all my heart unto the Lord
I just want my life to glorify His Son
To make my Father proud that I'm His child before I'm done
No need to pat me on the back or stop to shake my hand
I just want to hear my Father say, "well done", "well done"
I just want to hear my Father say, "well done

[NoCmpromiz]

Real easy.... (etc.)

You did not answer my very direct questions. Just in case you overlooked them or have difficulty comprehending, let me repeat those questions.

Question 1: What chord progressions are secular and which ones are Holy?

Question 2: which metronome settings are secular, and which are Holy (in other words, what beat is sacred/ what is not)

Question 3: which instruments are blessed and which are evil (what about that saxophone?)

Question 4: By the way, Martin Luther's "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" is to the tune of an olde German bar song... does that make it EVIL?

Note that I did not reduce the font size on question 4 this time so you should have no difficulty seeing it.

You are making a point about what is and what is not Christian. You are specifically discussing music. These DIRECT questions pertain to what makes music (well, except for Question 4 which calls for your opinion, of which you seem to have many.) You are maintaining that it is not the lyric content but the beat, the instruments, and the other peripherals that determine what is and what is not sacred. Music is a series of chord progressions with a certain rhythm (without those basics, it wouldn't be music..). Based on your criteria and thus disregarding the lyric content, please now directly answer these simple questions dealing with what makes music music. I and I'm sure other musicians that are reading this thread would like to know so that we do not fall into the sin of secularism.

[DJ MacWoW]

Because I haven’t heard the specific songs you mention I am uniformed

Yes. Because you haven't heard THEM.

I can tell you the one song I have heard - the “Seen and Not Heard”

I don't know that one. I quit listening when Greg Volz left so he could raise his children. They changed. And now it is again the original band.

Why are you so afraid to listen to them?

[Secret Agent Man]

I gave you an answer and it’s what I believe. If you don’t like it too bad.

And you are also a liar, Luther did not write that from a bar tune. Here’s the proof because apparently other liars like you have tried to pass off this lie before:

http://www.av1611.org/question/cqluther.html

Done with you too, liar.

[DJ MacWoW]

You say God created ALL music.

You left something out. I said in Post 27: Everything in the earth and on it was created by God. Lucifer distorts all that God created. God created music. ALL music.

And Post 88: Again, God created all music. Your band Kiss distorted God's creation.

So let's review. God created music. Lucifer distorts His creation.

[NoCmpromiz]

I know they stole Kiss’ riff because I have listen to another christian fellow point out that fact.

Link please. Or name. Or other identifying info.

[DJ MacWoW]

I don’t listen to Kiss, I know they stole Kiss’ riff because I have listen to another christian fellow point out that fact.

That sounds like "I didn't read the Bible but somebody told me about it".

How do you know that Kiss didn't copy them? Anyway, I really don't care. Eric Carmen used Rachmaninoff in one of his songs. So what?

You have yet to be honest enough to even listen to them. You criticize something you have never even heard. That's called ignorance.

[DJ MacWoW]

You are still in denial, and it’s clear to me you do not have godly discernment.

Criticizing something you have NO knowledge of is Godly?

Do you get headaches looking through keyholes with both eyes?

I’m done with you.

Thank God! You have no knowledge, won't listen to them and preach like the Phelps.

[DJ MacWoW]

He never answered anything. And he finally admitted he’d never heard Petra. So he’s running and insulting people because he couldn’t answer simple questions.

[NoCmpromiz]

I gave you an answer and it’s what I believe. If you don’t like it too bad.

Problem here: You did not answer. It may be what you sincerely believe, but it is not an answer to the questions. It only states your opinion which you are trying to enforce to be as binding as Holy Writ. For your opinion to have any validity beyond your own mind, it must stand up to other logical tests. I asked direct questions that pertain to the nature of music. For us to accept the validity of your opinion, these questions must be answered.

For the sake of this argument we will dispense with the Martin Luther comment since it is possible that I have been misinformed. However, NOW, about the three questions that pertain to music that you have refused to answer and obfuscated the issue by redirecting the discussion. I will repeat them again, since you have NOT answered them.

Question 1: What chord progressions are secular and which ones are Holy?

Question 2: which metronome settings are secular, and which are Holy (in other words, what beat is sacred/ what is not).

Question 3: which instruments are blessed and which are evil (what about that saxophone?)

To provide a direct answer to a direct question it is suggested that you use the following format: "The answer to what chord progressions are sacred is __________". The answer to what beat is Holy is _________________." The answer to which instruments are Holy is ______________."

Fill in the blank spaces with your direct answer to these questions that pertain to the character of music. That will provide us with a direct and definitive answer to this important question.

By the way, I can admit that I could have been misinformed, but calling me a liar as an excuse NOT to answer the other questions is not an acceptable line of reasoning. I will do some more research (though probably not from a KingJimmyIsTheOnlyTrueInspiredWordOfGod website...) Now, answer the remaining questions. If you do not answer them DIRECTLY, by using your method of logic I will have the right to call you clueless and wrong, won't I?

[NoCmpromiz]

He never answered anything.

I think I hear crickets.

Chirping.

In the dark.

[DJ MacWoW]

Yep.

[aruanan]

Nope, not projecting, not assuming anything.

Music can be tested as to whether it is godly or not, just like anything else, using discernment. Some music is godly, and some isn’t. ‘Christian rock’ is just rock with a christian veneer wrapped around it. It’s still rock music. Which by its nature is not godly music.

Again, you're simply defining things in a way that justifies your previous conclusion and then believing that you have somehow proved something. And you're engaging in a circular argument: "It's not godly music because it's rock music and rock music is ungodly." We could probably make a strong argument that anyone who argues in a circular fashion is congenitally incapable of discernment. "Discernment" as you have used it is a weasel word that means "whatever seems right to me and allows me to claim that whatever seems right to you is in error." You're still simply asserting without having provided any sort of evidence besides an appeal to mysticism: "I have the ability to know that what I claim is true." It's still just an assertion that has no more authority or validity than "Crispy bacon is the only proper bacon because wiggly bacon is not proper bacon. And I have the ability to know this is true."

[Secret Agent Man]

Question 1 answer: A chord is a chord, not a style of music. Question 2 answer: Metronome settings are not music. If you want to get into what beat is holy or not, a beat that gives a rhythm that people dance to in a sexually suggestive manner, I’d say that was not a holy beat. Question 3 answer: An instrument is used to make music, the instrument is not the player of the instrument, who determines what type of music is being played.

Your questions are off the point, and even so, they have been answered. The point has always been about the fact trying to wrap a christian message in secular music makes the music secular. It’s still secular music.

[Secret Agent Man]

Why are you lying? I said I did hear part of one of their songs, part of the “Seen and Not Heard” song. Either you have trouble reading or you are flat out lying.

[DJ MacWoW]

You finally admitted that you had heard PART of one song. But in Post 74 you said: Post their videos of these songs and let people hear and see them, words alone simply don’t cut it.

I had already done so and you were too dishonest to even listen to them. I had been posting links all along including Post 1.

Either you have trouble reading or you are flat out lying.

Knock off the namecalling as I'm not the one being dishonest. You are criticizing something you have never heard.

[Secret Agent Man]

If you read how I explained I heard them, you’d have known I heard both versions because I heard them at a presentation where both snippets of the songs were played for comparison. I heard both actual snippets of each groups’ songs.

The presenter also explained that Kiss’ song came out first, in the 1970s. Just google “petra used kiss riff seen and not heard” and you’ll find plenty of notation that Kiss’ song came out first.

So to you Kiss is the same music style as Rachmaninoff?

Again, I have heard the pieces I am talking about. You don’t have to listen to every christian rock band to understand what they are playing is secular music, dressing like secular groups (just look at their album covers and videos), behaving like secular rock groups on stage, with a christian veneer over their music.