First off, to both of you and your love fest for Apple. My threads began in earnest to explain why our family uses both products. My early posts explained that the Apple products do not work for me.
I was attacked. I was told I was a moron and uninformed.
I outlined why they did not work, and was told “bullshit”, you just don’t know what your doing.
I further explained how I saw Apple being marketed and was told again, Bullshit.
I then checked the posting history of this guy Swordmaker, and saw page after page of attacks on those who disagree that Apple is not the Bees Knees.
Now, when I get into these types of discussions, whether they are with Gay Activists, PETA types, Palin haters, or Apple Zealous, I know that common sense is not going to prevail.
I pointed to problems with apple, documented by hundreds of articles, and it is dismissed as FUD. As a matter of fact, it is almost a give-me, that anyone who points out anything bad about Apple, Swordmaker claims it is FUD in his numerous defensive posts according to his posting history.
This is the sign of a zealot. It is also in his posting history, common for him to scream that he is being picked on or trolled on, by those who disagree with him. This is the tactic of the left. This is the tactic of those who don’t want to debate, but rather those who want to preach to a choir, and want everyone else to shut up.
I explained my wife loves her apple products, but they were not for me. That was not enough. So, in an effort to end this dumassery, I gave him what he wanted, a complete statement as to the greatness of Apple. The problem is, he was insulted by that as well. You see, he wants to debate about apple, talk about it, but not be made fun of, and he wants no light to shine on his absolute love and adulation for Jobs and Gore.
Now, I will outline further, above and beyond, why most folks here don’t like Apple. You say there are 500 apple users that I offend? Guess what, there are thousands of conservatives here that Apple offends, and maybe you are on the wrong forum, pimping your Gay loving, left leaning products, made by child labor in foreign countries.
You think I am going against Jim Robs policy against starting flame wars? Take a look at his recent policy of promoting the homo agenda. Apple is front and center in that. Don’t dismiss it as “oh, its not apple, its the employees”. Employees cannot use their companies name without the express consent of that company. Apple pushed very hard in CA to push the homo agenda, and they are the most liberal of the PC makers, and are noted as the 2nd most liberal company in the United States. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/412022/apple-second-most-liberal-us-corporation/
Apple continually disallowed conservative apps, while approving and pushing liberal apps:
http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/412022/apple-second-most-liberal-us-corporation/
The use of foreign child labor is also a point that I do not like, but Apple defends it.
http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2010/02/are-liberal-mac-apple-ipod-and-apple.html
Lets get back to their donation policy. Mind you, I don’t support microsoft either, but we are talking about Computers. This is why I like PC, I can build them how I want, buy from who I want, and what I want stick it in. Apple is a computer maker, Microsoft is an operating system maker. Neither I, nor Michael Reagan, nor Rush agree with Apples political stance, nor would most on this forum as well, I am sure:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/03/michael_reagan/
The democrats on iTunes
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/the-democrats/id376405891?mt=8
See, that is allowed, but this isnt:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/12/apple-removes-anti-gay-and-anti-abortion-app.html
Nope, no way Apple will let you be anti-Gay or pro-Choice. Wonderful isn’t it?
Its just not Big Al, it’s the whole company.
Here is what I think about Apple and their marketing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JixbzFjv_cU
Now, lets get on to the meat, which is where our arguments began. First this Swordmaker claims that Apple does not target the technically challenged. Really? What about these commercials where they target folks who can’t even plug in a mouse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tq7yykR-DM&feature=channel
And as far as not targeting the enviro-weenies, oh no, they don’t do that either.... Feast your eyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhuSJ6RSNrw
Here, they tout themselves as the GREENEST of notebooks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqJl6huz4y0&feature=related
Lets move on to their actual products. First, everything they release, originally, sucks. I think it is their marketing strategy to release sucky products. Every first version sucks. The original iphone, no Nav, couldn’t even take movies. Well, I guess you can keep buying iPhones until they get up to speed at the cost of a thousand bucks a year.
The first music storage devices? My daughter had one of the originals, it would not work with our PC’s, we could NOT transfer our existing music to it, unless we had the rights to it. Which means all those CD’s we bought in the 80’s were junk.
Oh, yes, apple changes, eventually. Even their Macintosh and desktops couldn’t communicate with each other at one time. Remember that?
As far as graphics and processing. I remember all the Apple heads talking about how the Intel chipsets sucked, and Apple had a far superior product. Test after test showed different results. So what did Apple do? They went with Intel.
Remember how all of Microsoft products sucked to the Apple-bots? Guess what Apple did, they made a deal with Gates to supply the office portion to Apple, because it was far superior.
Remember how only apple peripherals would work with Apple? The Apple bots LOVED that, but no one else did. Now, USB works some of the time. But you are still taking a chance on some of the digital cameras and music PDA’s and phones working with Apple. But they all work for PC.
How about that 1 button mouse that Apple insisted for years was the BEST! People hated it. Now you can get a normal mouse.
So, it seems that the better Apple becomes, the more like a PC they become. The better they get, the less like Apple they are. Well, except for that hefty price tag, and except for their constant push of liberal agenda.
So, again, tell me why I.. yes ME... should buy an Apple and what benefit I would get from it?
My wifes Apple is problematic, it has trouble hooking up to our Linxys Win 7 network, it has trouble using our HP printers, and it acts like a total ass when trying to file share with our homegroups. It was to the point, that the locking up of the computer (of which no one at Apple could tell us how to figure out how to trace what was freezing up the computer) was due to using a HP printer on our network. We had to segregate, and yes, USB... not wireless... USB cable a dedicated with an APPLE COMPLIANT printer. So much for integration... eh?
Now, lets get on to the price thing. Two years ago, my son built his own PC. He did it for around $800 bucks, mostly from NewEgg, his liquid cooling system he got at a PC swap meet. Quad Core, blazing fast. Reason he built it? For games. More power to him. Not Xbox games, MMORPG games, where speed is of the utmost importance.
Why did he build his own? Because we won’t buy him that stuff, the money comes from his job delivering papers, and shoveling snow. Plus, he got credit for a boyscout badge. And, its what kids should do. He priced out all manner of computers, PC’s and Apples. First, he disqualified Apple because the games he and all his classmates play, would not work on Apple. Yes, he tried on Moms Apple, but it froze up and lagged horribly. Gamers who play those types of games know, you don’t use Apple apparently.
He priced the system he was building at Dell. Around 4grand. He priced the Alienware one. He didn’t trust HP, so he built his own. He did it for about 800 bucks. No monitor, he had a 26” monitor already, and he had super sound / surround sound speakers. He used his old sound card, he used his old hard drive, whatever he could. He did it for around 800 bucks. He waited till his Radeon card was on sale at Newegg, that was the longest wait, and picked up the chipset and motherboard in Rosemont Illinois at the computer convention for about 1/4 the price it was retailing for.
Can you do that on an Apple? I doubt it. The case was built by dad in the sheet metal shop (me), and it was custom done, to be LARGE, so it could fit his liquid cooling, 2 fans, and 8 expansion slots. Cost for me to build that case? Probably 20 bucks. We had a guy down the street paint it black in his auto body shop. He donated the time and paint.
Now, I see that over the last year, Apple has made some changes. They are progressing towards being able to do that. I see you can mix and match parts. Like I said, they are becoming more and more like a PC. As soon as they become a PC, they will become a good product. But why wait. Why not just buy a PC?
So, there you have it, I think technically, they are always behind the 8 ball, I think politically, they suck, I think they market to the left, they support the left, they are expensive, and I personally don’t like them.
I have heard Ben and Jerry’s makes good ice cream, but I won’t buy it, when there are other brands out there that don’t lean so far left.
So, if I am starting a flame war, by disagreeing with Apple, their pro-homo, anti-Life, and all around leftist green bullshit policies, report me, and lets see how that all works out for you.
I am also against the recent push to get every military man an Apple. Its bullshit. It amounts to rewarding Apple like the unions. Spend the money on Body Armor, not frickin iphones.
Also, stop spouting off how great Apples market share is and comparing them to Microsoft. Microsoft makes an operating system, Apple makes computers. A fair analogy would be to count all the PC’s made and sold in the world, and compare THAT number to the number of Apples sold. I would be impressed if Apple hit the 3% mark, but I am just speculating here.
As far as Apple taking over Microsoft in sales, why are we comparing the sales of a software manufacturer with that of a computer manufacturer? Are the Gay Loving, Left Leaning Apple-bots that desperate?
You can ping whoever you want to call into this discussion, as I see when you get frustrated, you start calling in the recruits to circle the wagons.
No, I’m sorry, I won’t support Apple and their left, gay, anti-life, Al Gore, Steve Jobs, gub’mint welfare, crap technology, but, you do whatever you want. I am just suggesting you may be on the wrong forum to do so.
I did not call you a moron. Name-calling bores me. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you are misinformed, because the alternative is that you're lying.
You are spinning off in a hundred different directions. My only argument with you has been your criticisms of the Mac that are factually inaccurate. You're still at that, I see.
The first music storage devices? My daughter had one of the originals, it would not work with our PC’s, we could NOT transfer our existing music to it, unless we had the rights to it. Which means all those CD’s we bought in the 80’s were junk.
The first-generation iPod was Mac-only. The second generation was Windows or Mac compatible, but had only a Firewire interface. If you did not have a Mac, or you did not have a Firewire port, then buying an iPod was an astonishing lapse in research.
Assuming you had a Mac to connect it to, your "unless we had the rights to it" is simply a crock. Every iPod ever made will play standard MP3 files. Every version of iTunes ever released has been able to rip CDs. The iTunes store did not even exist until the 3rd-generation iPod, in April 2003.
Even their Macintosh and desktops couldn’t communicate with each other at one time. Remember that?
No idea what you're talking about. The very first Mac had LocalTalk networking out of the box.
As far as graphics and processing. I remember all the Apple heads talking about how the Intel chipsets sucked, and Apple had a far superior product. Test after test showed different results. So what did Apple do? They went with Intel.
PowerPC chips were, when adopted and for some years thereafter, faster than Intel's Pentium. Motorola and IBM failed to keep up with Intel, so Apple switched. That's been the pattern for Apple -- they develop their own technology when needed, and switch to off-the-shelf solutions when they catch up.
Remember how all of Microsoft products sucked to the Apple-bots? Guess what Apple did, they made a deal with Gates to supply the office portion to Apple, because it was far superior.
Microsoft was working with Apple before the Mac launched. Word for Mac was released in 1985, and was a popular title on Mac when it trailed far behind WordPerfect on DOS.
Remember how only apple peripherals would work with Apple?
I remember that claim. It wasn't true.
The Apple bots LOVED that, but no one else did. Now, USB works some of the time. But you are still taking a chance on some of the digital cameras and music PDA’s and phones working with Apple. But they all work for PC.
Any peripheral requires that the manufacturer write drivers or use standard ones. You'd have to dig pretty far into the bargain bucket to find a camera, MP3 player or phone that won't work with a Mac.
How about that 1 button mouse that Apple insisted for years was the BEST! People hated it. Now you can get a normal mouse.
For suitably broad versions of "now." I had a three-button mouse for Mac in 1989.
Now, I see that over the last year, Apple has made some changes. They are progressing towards being able to do that. I see you can mix and match parts.
For values of "over the last year" that reach back to 1997, when Apple started offering build-to-order G3 Macs. Just because you have recently discovered something does not make it new.
And as far as not targeting the enviro-weenies, oh no, they don’t do that either.... ... Here, they tout themselves as the GREENEST of notebooks:
That was a reaction to Greenpeace. Greenpeace was continually trashing Apple in the press over supposedly poor environmental practices. This was mainly because Apple wasn't bragging about anything environmental while all the PC OEMs paid a lot of lip service and wrote a lot of BS to Greenpeace. Apple finally succumbed to the pressure, publicizing the environmentally friendly aspects of their products.
"Apple has been criticized by some environmental organizations for not being a leader in removing toxic chemicals from its new products, and for not aggressively or properly recycling its old products. ... It is generally not Apple’s policy to trumpet our plans for the future; we tend to talk about the things we have just accomplished. Unfortunately this policy has left our customers, shareholders, employees and the industry in the dark ... So today we’re changing our policy." -- Steve JobsFirst, everything they release, originally, sucks.
There was an article on this a while back about how Apple operates like a startup, which is what gives the flexibility often lost by large corporations. For these products, Apple is more interested in getting the idea out there first to see if it catches on. If it does, then Apple can shift engineering resources to the project to make it better. Apple doesn't highly staff all of the teams, so people are shifted around like this as needed. Given Apple's objectively huge level of market-changing success, I think it's working.
The first music storage devices? My daughter had one of the originals, it would not work with our PC’s
Duh, the first iPods were Mac-only. I don't buy PC-only products for my Mac, and I don't buy Mac-only products for my PC. What a concept.
Guess what Apple did, they made a deal with Gates to supply the office portion to Apple, because it was far superior.<>/i
Faulty history, MS Word first went WYSIWYG on the Mac in 1985 and from then on reigned as the preferred word processor for the Mac. Before that it was by no means a superior DOS product. It didn't even hit Windows until years later.
I remember all the Apple heads talking about how the Intel chipsets sucked, and Apple had a far superior product. Test after test showed different results. So what did Apple do? They went with Intel.
Very simplistic. For one, the x86 architecture does suck, and the PowerPC architecture is far better, not as tied to the past. The x86 is literally just a set of extensions on the 8-bit 8080 from the 1970s. In contrast the PowerPC has its history in IBM's effort to make the highest performance chip possible, resulting in the POWER processor for the RS/6000 server in 1990. It was even designed from the beginning to support 64-bit.
But that is merely theoretical in the face of business realities. The other fact is that at times the PowerPC in Macs was far more powerful than the fastest PCs. This was especially true in the late Pentium III and early Pentium 4 era. Then it became a lot slower as Moto/IBM refused to put resources into making the PPC line faster. Then the PPC was faster again with the 970, but again IBM refused to put in the resources to make it faster, and it ran way too hot for Jobs' portable view of the future (for a while Apple was the only major OEM to have liquid cooling in the G5). PPC was no longer an attractive option. Apple's suppliers simply didn't want to put the money into R&D when selling only Apple's numbers. Intel was killing them on economy of scale.
The kicker was Intel dropping the horrendously inefficient Pentium 4 architecture, going to more efficient Core line. That is what Apple switched to. And now that Apple is using the x64 architecture (much better than x86) and is not using the BIOS (that piece of 16-bit 80s tech in your PC), things are pretty sweet. However, notice the large concentration in the highly efficient ARM architecture lately.
I think politically, they suck, I think they market to the left, they support the left,
Go ahead, buy Microsoft, support Planned Parenthood. Yep, Bill Gates is a big lefty too, and loves to give generously to lefty causes. Most of Silicon Valley fought against Proposition 8. If you avoid tech companies because of politics, you'll be living in the stone age.
My point is that it's okay to criticize. But it helps if you have your facts straight first so it doesn't look like you're going on an ignorant rant.
Please link to the post where you were told you were a "moron."
I outlined why they did not work, and was told “bullshit”, you just don’t know what your doing.
I further explained how I saw Apple being marketed and was told again, Bullshit.
Link also to the reply where ANYONE used the term "bullshit" in reference to what you said about how Apple computers worked or how Apple went about doing their marketing. I disagreed with you and gave you reasons and evidence.
I again accuse you of raising straw man arguments based on your myths and ignorance to shoot down. The rest of your post is just more of the same tactics. They are not worth my time to refute for the umpteenth time.
Incidentally, esox, that claim is TOTALLY FALSE! You jumped to a FUD conclusion! Apple was the only US company to audit employment conditions at it's contractors in China and included the prohibition of child labor in it's standard contracts... And the article you linked was an article written in response to Apple's action they took against one of their subcontractors they found in violation of their contract who WAS using underage workers in violation of Apple's contract with them! Apple was NOT defending the use of child labor; they were spearheading the international effort against it.
Again you are wrong! Even the comments on your link criticized the misrepresentations and pointed out that Apple had done the audit itself! Try reading and researching a bit more deeply before you assign blame.
Following Apple's example and lead, more and more US companies are incorporating workers' rights in their contract requirements.