Go Bobby!
Posted on 11/12/2010 4:53:42 PM PST by Retired Intelligence Officer
I need some help on this. I was reading where Bobby Jindal was born to immigrants here on visas. If he was born in Baton Rouge before they became naturalized citizens, wouldn't that make him ineligible to become President? I am in a heated argument at another website over this and I need answers to this controversy. Any help would be appreciated.
R.I.O.
Go Bobby!
Which expert was that?
Are we loading up for some character assassination now??
Are we loading up for some character assassination now??
“Let’s see. What can a thinking person can deduce from this...”
We get the point of your preperatory giggles, finally.
“1...... A citizen of the US, at the time of the adoption, etc. is NOT a Natural Born Citizen”
Yeah, duh, they were born before there was a U.S.
“2..... A citizen who was born in the US, is not necessarily a Natural Born Citizen”
Check your logic. This does not follow.
“so that means that US born citizens were the ones that were CITIZENS AT THE ADOPTION”
No, not U.S. born citizens, as there was no U.S. to be born in before the time of the Constitution’s ratification.
“3.....The only reason to ‘grandfather’ in the ‘citizens at adoption’, was for citizens born to foreigners. There can be NO OTHER REASON.”
Yes, there can be another reason. It was because had they not grandfather people in, no one would have been eligible to be president until, I estimate, 1824. This is, once again, because there was no U.S. to be born in before the U.S. existed.
“4.....One can ONLY find that Natural Born Citizens are born of CITIZENS on US soil”
This does not follow.
“5.....Allegiance is the determining factor.”
This does not follow.
“Anyone born prior to 1776...”
Actually, that’s 1789. Or was it ‘88? ‘89 is when it went into practical effect, anyway. That is, when there was a working government. The official ratification might have been in late ‘88, though.
“But did they then say he WAS a NBC???”
Unlike Red Steel, patlin, and others, WOSG never put words in SCOTUS’ mouth by claiming it decided one way or another on Ark’s NBC status. The Ark case abets an understanding of native borns as NBCs once you accept the plain truth that everyone who’s born a citizen is a natural born citizen. However, that was not at issue, and was therefore not made explicit. They merely decided whether he was a citizen.
“HOWEVER, should war break out, the aliens can opt out by giving up their visas and legally returning to the country of their other allegiance.”
You mean should a draft break out. We are already at war, if you haven’t noticed.
There’s no statement in WKA that equates what you call ‘born a citzen’ with natural born citizen (the closes is the ‘as much a citizen’ phrase,’ IOW, similar but not the same. Otherwise you are connecting dots that Justice Gray did not connect. He did nothing more than to declare the plaintiff a ‘citizen of the United States’ (the requirement for serving in Congress, not President) by virtue of the 14th amendment and birth on U.S. soil to non-citizens who were permanent residents and had permanent domicil.
Gray, did however, affirm the Minor v. Happersett ruling that rejected the need for the 14th amendment to establish citizenship for natural born citizens, “The decision in that case was that a woman born of citizen parents within the United States was a citizen of the United States ...” Here Gray acknowledges the status of the parents as being legally recognized as having an impact on the citizenship of a child born in the U.S. Justice Waite, in Minor, made this declaration to that Minor’s citizenship was that of a natural born citizen, as defined to fulfill the requirements of Art. II Sec. I. Of this, Waite said, there is no doubt.
I wasn't at first, but now you've lead me to believe your expert isn't really an expert after all. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so defensive, and you would have posted his or her name and credentials when I said no expert actually believes this nonsense.
“This says both persons are citizens but does not say that they are equal.”
It says, or implies, that they have equal citizenship status (”as much a citizen as” being equivalent to saying they’re of equal status). Since, as I said, the only quality that seperates classes of citizens from one another is the ability to be president. As such, if they did not mean native borns were equally able to serve as president, the statement was meaningless. How can you be every bit a citizen as an NBC without being able to serve as president?
Your fruit analogy is flawed, and I think you know why. There are various biological criteria for being considered a fruit. The most basic are both to be a plant and to contain your own seeds. Laymen think of them also as being plump, sweet, and edible. Likewise, the most basic criteria for being as much a citizen as an NBC is that you be both a citizen on the same plane as naturalized citizens AND be eligible for the presidency.
Now, if I were to say that an apple is as much a piece of fruit as an orange, but somehow what I called an apple did not contain its own seeds, I would be a liar.
I’d say that you are the lucky recipient of our mismanaged government and yes that does include aspects of the defense dept unfortunately. Now, I don’t know how old you were when you came and that could have something to do with it, so not knowing the specifics, I’ll stick with my mismanaged govt theory.
It was widely discussed here in April 2008 together with John McPain' problem on the same issue!!
The first birthers were Hilly/Billy, then Phil Berg, while the Hill Buzz weighed in
None of this is being reported in the media, but a Civil War in the Democrat ranks has been raging since May 31st, 2008…a date every Hillary Clinton supporter knows well, because that was the date of the Democrat Rules & Bylaws Committee Meeting where Howard Dean (then-DNC Chair), Donna Brazile, and scores of other Kool-Aid slurping Obama flunkies took off their masks and revealed the full extent of the Leftist coup that had taken over the party.
This was the day when the DNC took delegates Hillary Clinton won in Michigan away from her and handed them to Obama (despite the fact he wasn’t even on the primary ballot in that state, because he removed his name when his campaign realized he’d come in third in that race).
May 31st, 2008 was a day when Hillary “babes” (as you call us sometimes) like us flew to Washington in large numbers to stand outside the Marriott near the National Zoo, where this Rules & Bylaws Committee Meeting was held, to shout for the DNC to count all the votes and operate the nominating process fairly — but they refused. The anger over that day has never abated. In fact, it’s grown considerably since then.
Have you heard of the PUMA girls, the also came over here mad like hell and claimed they would vote for the poor McPain?
So, still what's your point with your question??
Does the time have anything to do that your dear leader, the usurper and illegal alien pResident in the W.H. STILL is a none NBC???
Actually, I would say his beef is with Federal laws that require the court to twist the of the definition of "interstate" and "commerce" in order to be them. That is, he's opposed to the precedents set in 1937 that justify Federal regulation of any activity that might affect interstate commerce, even if it itself is not commerce or conducted completely within the boundaries of a single state.
Some people say Thomas is a crank for holding that view because overturning those precedents would, in effect, make nearly every contemporary Federal program unconstitutional. Even Scalia has called him a "nut" for it.
Danamco: Do you have a source for that???
Here you go:
http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm
Here's the relevant quote:
"Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service."
“There’s no statement in WKA that equates what you call ‘born a citzen’ with natural born citizen”
Never claimed there was. Unlike other people, I don’t put words in justices’ mouths.
“Otherwise you are connecting dots that Justice Gray did not connect”
Yes, I am, because we are involved in different inquiries: his as to whether Ark was a citizen, mine as to whether he was an NBC.
“Gray, did however, affirm the Minor v. Happersett ruling that rejected the need for the 14th amendment to establish citizenship for natural born citizens”
Of course there’s no need when citizenship is established by means other than those provided for in that amendment. I’m not aware of anyone who doesn’t think the children of citizen parents are citizens. Nor of anyone who’s unaware that the 14th amendment says nothing about parentage.
“Here Gray acknowledges the status of the parents as being legally recognized as having an impact on the citizenship of a child born in the U.S.”
Everybody and his mother is aware, and always have been, of parentage having an impact.
“Since, as I said, the only quality that seperates classes of citizens from one another is the ability to be president”
Strike out the “Since,” please.
“he’s opposed to the precedents set in 1937 that justify Federal regulation of any activity that might affect interstate commerce, even if it itself is not commerce or conducted completely within the boundaries of a single state.”
On that count, we’re in absolute agreement, and he’s not cranky at all. To my mind, whereas “regulate” is bendy, “interstate” and “commerce” are pretty darn solid.
“Some people say Thomas is a crank for holding that view because overturning those precedents would, in effect, make nearly every contemporary Federal program unconstitutional. Even Scalia has called him a ‘nut’ for it.”
On practical grounds, it would be nutty. The cow’s out of the barn. However, on theoretical grounds, he’s absolutely right. Unfortunately, back in ‘37, or whenever, when justices had the opportunity to be a little impractical without being nutty, they went the get-along way. Thus abrogating their oaths.
How is it the same issue? McCain's parents were both Americans.
Were you under 26 when you came over? Only men of military age are required to register, both citizen or alien. So if you were older than 26, you were deemed to be too old to draft, and hence you did not register.
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