BINGO.
Posted on 07/09/2010 4:03:53 PM PDT by curiosity
One of the reasons birthers demand to see Obama's long-form birth certificate (as opposed to the short form already released) is that only the long-form lists the hospital.
Why is the hospital important? Well, birthers claim that if his birth was registered as having taken place at home, then it opens up the possibility that his birth was registered fraudulantly. That is, if he were born in Kenya, his grandma could have gone down to the local registrar, committed perjury by swearing she whitnessed his birth at home in Hawaii, and obtained a birth certificate saying he was born in Hawaii.
Now why would Grandma Dunham do such a thing? Well, birthers say in order to secure US citizenship for her grandson. They correctly point out that Mama Obama was too young to pass on US citizenship to her son automatically had he been born abroad. Therefore, birthers argue, to make sure Bambi got the benefits of US citizenship, Granny risked her freedom and career and committed perjury on his behalf.
There's a gaping hole in this story which birthers have yet to address: the fraud was unnecessary.
While it's true Obama would not be born a US citizen had be been born in Kenya, under section 101 and Title II section 205 of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, in effect at the time, as the minor child of a US citizen, Obama was entitled to a non-quota immigrant visa to enter the US.
Once back in the states, under Title III, section 322 Bambi would be eligible for natuarlization.
So you see, even if Obama were born in Kenya, it was possible to secure his citizenship through perfectly legal means. And no, it was not uncertain because the law explicitly presumed a child of "tender years" would be of good moral character. There were simply no grounds under the law to deny him citizenship once his mother petitioned for it on his behalf.
Yes, it probably would have taken some time for the government to precess the paperwork, maybe a couple years, but who cares? While waiting, Barry would be a permanent resident living in Hawaii with his mom, eligible for virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship.
So help me out, birthers. If there was no need to fraudulantly register Bambi's birth in Hawaii, what was Grandma Dunham's motive?
A few birthers have said it was to avoid the hassle of naturalization. Okay, let's take that as given.
So Stanely drops Barry in Kenya and sends a wire to grandma, who goes to the local registrar and, after committing perjury, gets a US birth certificate for her grandson. She then sends it to her daughter Kenya by whatever expensive means were available at the time. Great. Now what?
How does that help little Barry? He's still in Kenya and has no papers that would get him admitted to the US. A birth certificate doesn't help. He needs a passport or visa. He can't use the birth certificate for that, either, because a child born in the USA needs to apply for his passport before leaving the country, not afterward. Attempting to use it for this purpose at the US consolate in Kenya would have triggered an investigation and likely uncovered granny's fraud.
So tell me, birthers, what exactly did Grandma Dunham accomplish by committing perjury?
Now compare that to the legal way. Stanley drops litttle barry. She takes her passport and his birth certificate to the US consolate, and obtains a Declaration of Birth of a Child to a US Citizen Abroad. With that document she can get him a non-quota immigrant visa and enter the US without any trouble.
Seems to me the legal way would have involved much less hassle and stress.
So help me out, birthers. What am I missing?
Nope. If you didn't have your own passport, then you must have travelled with them on a family passport, which would have listed you and any other children in the family, and which could only be otained before going abroad.
Because it's fun.
Aren’t there more important topics to deal with?
Yes. I'm just addicted.
Why is Mitt Romney not eligible?
Naturalized and Natural Born are distinctly different.
Your post indicates that you are attempting to mislead a lot of people here on FR.
There is, and I am sure you are aware of this a difference between NBC and naturalized citizen.
But of course you know that.
To me the point is that all of these issues and questions have far more to do with his integrity and credibility than they do eligibility...
His furtive, enigmatic past has no business in the White House. His past should be an open book. Same with all presidents.
With brocko, we are not told where he's been, what he did, nor how he did it; and we're forbidden to look into it. The press, obviously, has no interest in looking into it. That's why we do. When someone acts like they're hiding something, they generally are.
So what is really your game here?
You cannot seriously expect anyone to give an answer to her motives, or that of his mother.
His eligibility doesn’t rest upon his place of birth, which means while the BC is interesting, its not the key. The key hides in plain sight. He is (probably) native born but not natural born. His dad was not a US citizen. Hence as you say the BC controversy may actually serve O’s interest since it diverts attention from his real problem.
Second he was given Indonesian citizenship as a child. You are generally allowed dual citizenship during childhood but once you reach adulthood you have to choose. Hence the question, what passport did he use when he traveled during his college years. And, hence, it is off limits.
Thirdly, the question then arises, what citizenship did he claim in college. Again, its a question easily answered but unanswered. His school records are off limits.
There are other things, pages missing from divorce decrees and so forth, you’ve probably seen the list of several dozen items he won’t release. They may in fact not impinge upon his eligibility to be president.
The question is “which” passport did he use. Indonesian, or US.
Why do you come to this forum and bring up theories
and conjecture and them make fun of people who comment
about your theories? Do you work for the opposition?
Are you a plant? One of your comments refers to
Obama enjoying birthers and that it also helps him.
What are you here for? Are you here to help the
(nasty) one or to expose his evil and treasonous
ways? What’s the deal?
“I don’t know what he age cut-off was but as a young minor I was allowed to travel with my parents on their passport.”
1962 - ‘66 My young sister traveled on my mother’s passport.
The rest I will let the reader figure out, but frankly speaking, it's way too late.
BTW, what should we call the people who questioned McCain's Qualifications under the Constitution.
Nutcases? Sorta-birthers.....
Re-read, assuming you ever read the Constitution's language regarding qualifications for President and place of birth.
DING! DING! DING!
We have a WINNAH !
Don't cloud the issue with reason here; they're poking fun at those who KNOW what the Constitution says.....
BINGO.
Well then, here....have some “fun” with this.
And, get back to us, ok? I’d like to hear your thoughts on why this was done....enjoy yourself!
Two different Official Certification of Nomination letters submitted by Nancy Pelosi and a woman named Alice Travis Germond
(Alice Travis Germond is the secretary of the 2008 Democratic National Convention (DNC)).
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd467.htm
After some thought, I see a practical reason for someone to insure he had proof of citizenship namely child custody jurisdiction.
The normal laws of states at that time is that a child born in wedlock would be a citizen of the state where the father is a citizen. An exception would be if the child was born out of wedlock and then it would be the mom’s state.
If there was a concern that custody issues would arise, the mom would be much better off if the child was a US citizen rather than an immigrant (think Cuba and Elian).
So I take back my original granting of your premise and disagree with your reasoning. However, the exercise is still irrelevant for me because I think the weight of the evidence is that he was born in Hawaii.
Don’t feed the trolls.
Nothing so nefarious, but I wonder if Mama Dunham wasn’t a little worried about Kenyan national and British citizen daddy, who wasn’t legally married to her daughter taking the boy back with him at some point and wanted to insure that he was on the books as a U.S. Citizen.
Just a theory, of course, your mileage may vary.
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