Neanderthals are part of the human family

Access Research Network Science Literature ^ | 05/14/2010 | David Tyler

[count-your-change]

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, just another variation of humans in other words!

[Paul Pierett]

Halley’ Bible Handbook around page 79.

It was written back in 1928 before the Sharps trial. There are a lot of cultural dynamics here.

If you get deep into the ice age studies, well, hold on to your seat. These 12th planet guys don’t look so crazy.

Paul

Thanks for asking.

[allmendream]

Yep. Logic. Sometimes it gets ill. :)

[SunkenCiv]

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·
	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks To Hell With Poverty. This has been posted two or three times before, but I can't turn down Neandertal articles, I just can't do it. :') I'll ping it, but my plan to do the digest tonight has run aground due to an apparent server problem on FR. The Neandertal Enigma by James Shreeve in local libraries Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127] To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society · · Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google · · The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·

[SunkenCiv]

:’) The Sumerian king list (I think at least two copies have survived) has regnal lengths well in excess of 350,000 years, from end to end.

Among the problems (ahem) is that other sources also survive which show that the supposedly end-to-end dynasties are mostly overlapping and parallel. The problems with the numbering systems (and The Flood is mentioned right on the list itself) appear to have come about due to the use of different systems in use in each city, and the lack of a lexicon to figure out (even back then) how to interpret the numbers.

The other possibility is that these numbers refer to something other than years. Months could not be it. Even days would not work, probably, since it would require at least one ruler’s reign in excess of 1000 years.

http://www.livius.org/k/kinglist/sumerian.html

[blam]

Neandertal Genome Yields Evidence Of Interbreeding With Humans

“It’s impossible to talk about them as ‘them’ anymore,” he says. “Neandertals are us.”

Something I've said on this site for over a decade. "We Are Neanderthals."

[ElkGroveDan]

Based on that photo I’d say they died out from not using sunscreen.

[SuzyQue]

No, if you read the article, and many others like it, it is saying that you* are more likely to have Neanderthal genes than would be someone from, oh, let’s say Kenya.

*(I’m making some assumptions about you from the tone of your post, and assuming a European heritage.)

[curmudgeonII]

What!
No picture of Helen Thomas?
I thought that was mandatory in this type of post.

[BroJoeK]

allmendream post 39: "I think what they meant was that we share 1 to 4% of their otherwise unique genetic markers in our genetic DNA, indicating that European and Asian populations have about 1 to 4% neanderthal ancestry."

Again, you've restated the argument so that it at least makes sense logically. Whether that's what the original report intended to say, but for some reason just couldn't bring itself to say, is a matter of conjecture.

I suspect the confusion is deliberate, and possibly related to your additional argument that:

allmendream post 35: "Neanderthals are distinctly non human."

Let me suggest:
if we sort of "accidentally" confuse the very tiny subcategory of "unique genetic markers" -- of which apparently 1% to 4% are identical between Neanderthals & Euro-Asians but not Africans -- with the entire human genome of 3 billion nuclear DNA "base pairs" -- of which 99.5% are identical amongst humans and Neanderthals -- then we can with apparent reasonableness argue that "Neanderthals are distinctly non human."

In truth, the DNA evidence -- even leaving aside possible interbreeding -- suggests that Neanderthals are distinctly human -- 99.5%.
That 1% to 4% apparently refers only to the last one-half of one percent -- the same percentage by which humans differ from each other, and also from Neanderthals.

So let me put this as simply as possible: if humans can differ amongst ourselves by one-half of one percent and still all be "human," then why cannot Neanderthals differ from us by one-half of one percent and also still be "human"?
How is their one-half of one percent less "human" than ours?

Do you not agree? ;-)

[Little Bill]

I find it interesting that Paleolithic man could draw proportional pictures, engrave the progression of the Moon and seasons on bone, and invent Buttons, yet not know how to count.

Archbishop Usher couldn't.

[allmendream]

The genetic distance between even the most distantly related human being will be only 20% of the genetic distance between a human being and a neanderthal.

Even the most distantly related human populations shared a common ancestor within the last 100,000 years; neanderthals diverged as a separate unique population some 500,000 years ago.

In morphology they are distinctly neanderthal, not human.

In DNA they are distinctly unique, and show the evidence that the fossil record supports; that they diverged some five times longer ago than even the most distantly related human populations.

You assumptions of extrapolation of the 1-4% ancestry as being a 1-4% difference and that being the same amount of difference between humans and neanderthals is flawed.

The 1-4% ancestry is based upon markers and does not denote a 1-4% genetic difference between humans and neanderthals. Neither is the genetic or genomic difference between human populations and between human and neanderthals the same amount of difference, but five times less.

In other words, if you found a DNA sequence where two human populations differed by 0.1%, you can expect to see the neanderthal sequence differ by around 0.5%.

In the chart of genetic distance between human populations that I posted, the farthest branching would only be around 20% of the distance between the branching of humans with neanderthals.

[wendy1946]

Something I've said on this site for over a decade. "We Are Neanderthals."

What's it feel like to be wrong about something for over a decade? The neanderthal is a very advanced, extinct ape. His DNA was halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee, and we are totally unrelated to him other than possibly for similar design elements.

[SunkenCiv]

Not only that, despite the 40,000 years, Paleolithic man is still showing up to vote for the Demwit candidate.

[Little Bill]

I lived in Mass for 42 years you can't keep good Irish Men down, the women were a different matter, provided the blinds were closed.

[Grimmy]

“When they found that Neanderthals had the same gene sequence necessary to produce red hair, light skin tone and blue eyes, that pretty well knocked aside the whole idea that they weren’t as fully human as anyone else.”

That does help explain the Scotts.

[muawiyah]

Think of the interrelationships here as having spanned a full 4 ice age cycles ~ with anywhere from 20 to 100 different ice sheet advances and retreats.

For the Neanderthal side that's a serious problem since their remains would have gone "under the ice" numerous times and only a small sample of their quite lengthy history can ever be known.

What we don't know is whether or not any of the Neanderthal line returned to Africa ~ e.g. during those 5,000 year long periods every 100,000 years when the Sahara is in a pluvial and filled with trees, grassy plains, and plentiful game.

We don't know if our type of folks actually made it to Europe during any of the interglacials of those times just before they were destroyed by advancing ice sheets.

At the moment we only have a good grasp of our own line of folks coming from Africa and staying over a major glacial sheet advance by residing in South Central Asia.

There are entirely too many possible points of Neanderthal and proto-modern man to interact over that 500,000 years for us to exclude anything.

[blam]

I see that you posted to this article five years ago.

Minatogawa People (An Asian Neanderthal?)

[SunkenCiv]

;’)

[goat granny]

I have run across a couple of them on Free Republic, glad its only been a couple....the rest are great......