[decimon]

To B or not ping.

[TruthConquers]

Hmmm.

Only 238 patients, both Type I and Type II, for less than three years.

Pretty weak. I would like to keep the Type II’s separate since their diabetes is caused in such a different way than Type I.

This really doesn’t tell your average person much of anything.

[nina0113]

ping

[MetaThought]

They used 2.5 mg of folic acid! That’s way too much.

Use maybe 400 mcg of folic acid, or preferable 5-mthf.

[irishtenor]

Interesting. I have been taking MEGADOSES of B vitamins in the form of “5 Hour Energy” and I haven’t seen any issues from it. I am Type 2.

[Viking2002]

I've been taking a B complex for years as a metabolic enhancer, and I haven't seen any drop in urinary output. In fact, my doc put me on Lasix for fluid retention that my Lisinopril doesn't quite fully handle, and I pee like a baby racehorse now.

"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away, for his name is Obama."

[Marie]

“Patients received single tablet of B vitamins with folic acid (2.5 mg/d), vitamin B6 (25 mg/d), and vitamin B12 (1 mg/d), or matching placebo.”

Oh, that makes me furious! Diabetics are known to be low in vitamin B ONE, not B6 and B12!

Study after study has proven the benefits of B1 supplements for diabetics, but this one leaves the impression that ALL B’s are bad.

[MainFrame65]

Generally, water-soluble vitamins are non-toxic, even at “megadose” levels - the excess is just eliminated by the kidneys. Vitamin “C” is the classic example. I suppose some variants might have a toxic effect on the kidneys, but I am not aware of any such thing.

Vitamins B6 (pyridoxine) and B1 (Thiamine) are both water soluble, and in their common forms are harmless in large doses.

The common B6 supplements might contain as much as 50 times the MDR as the hydrocloride. The hydrocloride must be converted by the liver into pyridoxal 5’-phosphate, which is the active form. This is also available as a supplement.

The most common B1 supplement is Thiamine Hydrocloride, which is generally non-toxic at 30+ times the MDR. But it is absorbed slowly from the gut, and cleared from the blood in just a few hours, so it does not maintain continuous increased B1 levels.

This was my problem with diabetic (T2) neuropathy. My B1 level was just below the minimum, although I was taking both a multivitamin containing B1 and an additional “B-complex” supplement, 12 hours apart.

Then I learned about a supplement called “Benfotiamine” from someone on the FR Diabetes ping list. My neurologist had never heard of it, but a little research answered my questions (and his) about it, and I decided to try it, at 150mg twice a day. I kept taking the multivitamin, but dropped the separate B-complex.

Benfotiamine was invented in Japan as a treatment for alcoholic B1 deficiency, and it IS effective at raising and maintaining B1 blood level. I know this because my neurologist tested my B1 level twice more while I was taking it.

After 90 days, the test showed that my B1 was about 50% ABOVE the top of the recommended range, so I dropped the second dose. The next test, 6 months later, showed it to be just below the top of the normal range.

I have been taking this for about 2 years now, but neuropathy consists of damaged nerves, so full recovery - if it EVER happens, and many say it CANNOT - is likely years away. Meanwhile, I celebrate the occasional odd sensation in my feet, hoping that it is a precursor of things to come. But at age 70, I wish things would hurry up!