Posted on 04/11/2010 12:32:04 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Dear Elliot Miller: your feedback is currently 98.8%. That's good. Get over it.
Just when you thought that set of flamingo-themed flatware was a questionable enough buy on eBay, your business might be even more risky: the seller could be a Miami lawyer.
Mike Steadman paid $44 for a "working" time clock for his small Cape Canaveral welding business in November 2008, but it didn't work -- and now he's out $7,000 in legal fees, without representation, and still facing a pending $15,000 defamation lawsuit from seller Elliot Miller, an attorney living in a $3 million dollar waterfront home on Miami Beach.
Perhaps he should have purchased a stone and a slingshot. "I made the mistake of leaving my honest opinion online," Steadman told Florida Today of checking "negative" in the feedback section eBay asks all buyers to complete at the end of a transaction. "The comments are there to let other buyers know who they're dealing with. [But] because I don't have the money to fight them, I'm losing. It's not right. I'm speechless."
Steadman says when he received the clock, it didn't run, stamp time cards, or work with the accompanying set of keys as advertised. "When I opened the box it was in 3 pieces [from three separate models] that didn't even fit."
Miller refused to grant a refund, so Steadman filed a complaint with PayPal's buyer protection plan and eventually got his $44 back. But the bad taste lingered. "Bad seller," he wrote in an effort to warn other buyers about EMiller1313. "Like a used car salesman." Unfortuantely for Steadman, Miller is just a tad uptight about feedback. He filed a lawsuit in Miami-Dade court last February, claiming that the single comment lowered his perfect 100 percent positive feedback rate to just 98.6% -- thereby "seriously harming" his "commercial reputation."
Seriously seriously? Apparently so: Miller wants $15,000 in damages from Steadman, whose lawyer quit last week when funds from a second mortgage on his house ran out. We hereby suggest the buyer who left the only other negative comment -- "Seller suggested we unload obviously broke unit on another unspecting buyer" -- start dodging process servers.
Sellers can’t leave feedback anymore - so the “I never got the item” scammers who work over sellers for items and get refunds are never outed anymore.
It’s a system with serious flaws.
My wife and I ran several thousand sales through the years but have backed off and mostly quit.
The clincher was when we sold a $350 stroller to a woman who signed for the item at delivery then claimed “non delivery” against us. Even after we sent copies of her signature as provided to us by the USPS, Ebay took the money from us out of Paypal and gave it back to the thief.
It’s a mess and full of scammers.
With ebay’s highly elevated seller fees (way up over the past few years) it’s getting a lot harder to even find deals on the site anymore.
EBay knows it has plenty of sellers, but favors buyers now through this new system -- to keep buyers coming back. But some people unfairly review sellers and effectively put them out of e-business with scorched earth feedback.
Under these circumstances, I would not blame a seller for suing a buyer who provided a false review. The seller cannot just shrug it off; his livelihood may be at stake.
That is to say that the time is ripe for competition to eBay. They have the advantage that “everyone” goes there, but that’s not unassailable.
I agree with all of your comments. I rarely use eBay these days, after being a frequent buyer and seller for years. EBay had a good thing going and ruined it.
All exactly true. I do it the same. I got screwed by an unscrupulous dealer only once and was able to recoup all but $25 of a purchase that never got shipped. It was a months long process and required some work but I got my money...because of using PP and a CC.
Nonsense!
Scum like this lawyer need to be stopped!
It might be abuse of process.
At any rate, a seemingly frivolous suit.
I remember once buying something on ebay from someone who I then noticed had some negative feedback- I asked him about it, he denied blame. The item he sent me was fine, no problems.
Ping
When there is a criminal prosecution involved, malicious prosecution can be claimed when a complaint to the police that was made without probable cause results in criminal prosecution. There are lots of "privileges" for making police reports, though, so it is much more difficult to make a malicious prosecution case in a criminal setting. Generally, it has to be a false report and you have to have known it was false.
If a false statement results in an arrest, the person making the false statement can also be subject to suit for "false arrest".
False arrest cases are much easier to prove, except against cops. Generally, any arrest that is made with probable cause, as defined in the criminal law, is a false arrest. These happen most often when a store arrests an alleged shoplifter, but any situation when someone is held against their will qualifies as a false arrest.
I used to handle false arrest cases for a large retailer, and I have also done a few plaintiff's cases for people who have been falsely arrested.
Wait until someone argues that the Fifth Amendment requires a virtual jury of virtual peers to adjudicate a claim from a virtual customer against a virtual seller.
-PJ
So why even have reviews in the first place. I think if there is a problem, the buyer should contact Ebay privately, and then Ebay can work out the issues between the buyer and seller, and keep things between the two parties.
Also, in general, opinion cannot be the subject of a defamation case, unless the opinion contains facts that are false. So, saying that that someone is a bad seller is protected. Saying they are a bad seller because the item arrived in defective condition is not protected. It seems like this is the latter kind of case--the negative feedback implied that the seller had not done what he was supposed to.
You make a valid point. Ebay needs to have reviews so people will feel confident in bidding. Suits like this will chill the willingness of people to give truthful feedback. Perhaps Ebay needs to have as part of its terms of service that a suit like this violates its terms of service. All disputes about feedback should go through Ebay. That could probably be enforced as a type of alternative dispute resolution agreement. Then this lawyer would be out of luck.
I have a score over 800 on eBay. No negatives. There have been problems but that have gotten solved in time.
ML/NJ
All that changed October 2008 when ebay made it mandatory that sellers accept paypal. That's when I bailed as there is no way I'm going to risk losing multiple thousand dollar items due to paypal's loopholes designed to protect the buyer which make it easy for scammers to ply their trade.
Business is doing just fine before, during, and after my ebay selling stint.
What's nonsense? You don't think that lawyers like this who have 3 million dollar homes do this crap for the fun of it? If so, you need to get out more often.
I agree they need to be stopped but our current system is not set up to do that. Instituting tort reform similar to 'loser pays' would be a start. But all the outrage in the world....doesn't do a thing.
I’ve had one bad deal, the only deal I’ve had, and I won’t be using Ebay again.
Sher schlau.
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