Horizontal and vertical: The evolution of evolution

New Scientist ^ | Jan 26, 2010 | Mark Buchanan

[decimon]

Via SunkenCiv

[decimon]

Crossing evolution ping.

[Westbrook]

Suppose, suppose, suppose,

Assume, assume, assume

Consider, imagine, visualize

What if

Probably

Must have

Could have

Should have

May have

[freedumb2003]

Creationists who misinterpret this as somehow undermining TToE in 3...2...1...

[Ken522]

... organisms acquire genetic material "horizontally" from other organisms around them, rather than vertically from their parents or ancestors ...

That means "organisms" evolve individually while they're still alive ... which means gene structures change within the organism's lifespan ... I'm not a biologist but this doesn't sound quite right ...

[muawiyah]

Guy is delivering the new truth in soft blows ~ hence the wouldashouldacoulda approach.

DARWIN IS DEAD.

Finally, at long last, the truth is out about horizontal gene transfer among species.

Next detailed plans for intergalactic space craft found among plankton in the North Atlantic ~ (just looking to the future).

Of course there can be successful gene transfer from species to species. Happens all the time. We just don't notice it until some virus comes along and breeds with our cells.

[La Lydia]

Intensely interesting, and my, aren’t we stirring up trouble early in the morning!

[wendy1946]

At the root of this idea is overwhelming recent evidence for horizontal gene transfer - in which organisms acquire genetic material "horizontally" from other organisms around them, rather than vertically from their parents or ancestors.

Since around 1951 when I got old enough to eat things other than cereal and soft foods, a week has never gone by in which I didn't eat at least one piece of chicken. I mean, I should be able to fly by now, right??

[decimon]

...aren’t we stirring up trouble early in the morning!

I wuz set up.

[dangerdoc]

We have seen for decades that microbes can pick up antibiotic resistance from other microbes outside their own species.

It sounds like this guy is studying the effects of gene transfers outsied of antibiotic resistance.

It is a reasonable field of study based on the behavior of bacteria already seen and documented.

[tacticalogic]

Since around 1951 when I got old enough to eat things other than cereal and soft foods, a week has never gone by in which I didn't eat at least one piece of chicken. I mean, I should be able to fly by now, right??

Get a clue! Chickens can't fly worth a damn. Switch to duck, and check back in 2070.

[MortMan]

Since around 1951 when I got old enough to eat things other than cereal and soft foods, a week has never gone by in which I didn't eat at least one piece of chicken. I mean, I should be able to fly by now, right??

I don't know about flying, but I've seen a lot of ladies who grow into the "fryer thigh" model of adulthood... ;-P

To look at me, you'd think I primarily ate Butterball Turkeys!

[BlueYonder]

I've seen a lot of ladies who grow into the "fryer thigh" model of adulthood... ;-P To look at me, you'd think I primarily ate Butterball Turkeys!

After a crack like that about the ladies, you may soon be eating crow. 8^

[MortMan]

Well, at least I didn’t talk about white meat areas from the chicken! ;-P

[wendy1946]

Yet another huge argument against evolution. Chickens started out as a 1-lb jungle fowl and were bred into a 7-lb meat animal but still have the 1-lb bird’s wings. You’d think it would be easy for some small number of them to evolve wings adequate for the 7-lb bird and start flying better, but it never happens. In real life, there’s no such thing as gaining new functionality on a macro level.

[exDemMom]

Suppose, suppose, suppose,

Assume, assume, assume

Consider, imagine, visualize

What if

Probably

Must have

Could have

Should have

May have

Scientists are taught to write like that. It's a reflection of the uncertainty of the profession. No matter how carefully thought out the hypotheses and interpretation of the data, it is always possible for someone to come along with a better hypothesis or interpretation. In the scientific literature, about the only time you will see a scientists state anything with certainty is when they are describing their direct observations.

"Following treatment with the compound ABN342394, expression of caspases 3 and 8 increased; however, the cells did not enter apoptosis. We believe that the inhibition of apoptosis results from the binding of ABN342394 to the caspase active site." The second sentence leaves open the possibility of a different interpretation.

[EnderWiggins]

"In real life, there’s no such thing as gaining new functionality on a macro level."

You call slight changes in wing size "new functionality on a macro level?" Well that's your problem, right there. You think too small.

That sort of change doesn't even require new genetic information. By evolutionary standards it's an easy change for a species to make. The only reason chickens don't make it because we don't let them.

But a real example of "new functionality on a macro level" would be the innovation of tricolor vision in primates. For it to happen, it required a 50% increase in genetic information for opsin, and then a number of subsequent point mutations that tuned the new gene for a different frequency of light.

And it happened not just once "in real life," but two different times in the primates alone!

Now that's "new functionality on a macro level!!"

[exDemMom]

That means "organisms" evolve individually while they're still alive ... which means gene structures change within the organism's lifespan ... I'm not a biologist but this doesn't sound quite right ...

With microorganisms, introduction of exogenous DNA can enable them to function in ways they did not before (e.g. they become resistant to antibiotics that previously would have killed them). In complex organisms, insertion of exogenous DNA can have a number of different effects (cancer is one). A large fraction of mammalian (including human) DNA is thought to be of viral origin; we have a complex set of mechanisms for maintaining those viral sequences in an inactive state, so they don't kill us.

[tacticalogic]

Yet another huge argument against evolution.

Only if "huge" and "specious" are made interchangeable.

[DaGman]

That’s what science does. That’s how we learn about the world around us.