Posted on 01/28/2010 11:39:40 AM PST by GauchoUSA
Next week, I am going on a short expedition into the Russian Northwest forest. My wife's cousins along with a couple more friends will go hunting, drinking and shooting...you know man stuff. I have been informed that we will be using the obvious AK 47 and they will even have a couple of Dragunovs. I am sure to come out with a great story out of it.
My question is, since I am sure to come back a weapons afficionado and I will have virtually no experience with an AR 15, for US purposes what should I set my eye on purchasing? I'm sure there are a lot of Freepers who are experts on both and I have a cousin who has an incredible collection of AR 15's and AK 47's along with wicked shotguns and even a marine stainless steel shotgun. I am not too keen on handguns so I was hoping to get my hands on a good rifle. What would give me more bang for my buck? If God forbid a revolution is to come how can I prepare Rifle-wise.
You’ll shoot your eye out.
“Of course a true weapons afficionado would own both! ;)”
I will need to agree.
At 1000 yards the 5.56mm round has about 180 ft/lbs of energy left, approximately that of a rock thrown by a girl. It also drops over 300 inches at that distance, or 25 FEET. Add in any crosswind at all and you’re talking blind luck at hitting anything.
I love my 03A3. Built in June of 1943. Brand new CMP barrel, CMP stock, put an “A” front blade on it, glass bedded too.
Buddy of mine gave me twenty 220 grain 30-06 rounds. Went out to the range late summer.
I’ve never had a problem with 30-06 recoil before, but the next day I felt those.
AK's, manufactured in Romania or Bulgaria after they joined Nato shoot the 5.56 which give you higher muzzle velocity, less drop, and slightly better accuracy. Although even the Russian 7.8 version is not bad out to 250 yards which is about as far as I can see.
There is also a higher toned version AK which shoots 5.56 Nato which is also manufactured in the Nato Eastern Europe countries copied after the Finn/Russian Spaznetz version which is much better made and purportedly is more accurate further out--issued to snipers. Asking price on those is $1000; I have offered $600 but so far been unable to buy.
I’m not an expert, but I love my Rock River 5.56.
I bought mine about 4 years ago and at that time the waiting list for one of these was 6 months... a painful 6 months. ;>) They’re not cheap, but I think they are worth it. I added a few options including Optics.
My son in law was a scout in Iraq during the worsts days of the war... and this the the first thing he bought when he got home, well, besides a new boat. ;>)
I have run only about a thousand rounds through it (cost and availability of ammo holds me back). I have never had a jam or any malfunction and... I have never missed the target. When I shoot, I practice in all-weather and lighting conditions, I also add stress.
This thing has never let me down, although I am sure that there are other brands that work just fine and at a lesser price. I think I paid about $1800 (I get special pricing), but that’s with add ons and $600 for the optics. Full auto would be nice. ;>)
If you get one of these be very careful, because they are apparently so scary looking that libs will fall over dead at the mere sight of one. I’ve been thinking about painting mine pink and attaching a fluffy puddle doll to it to calm folks down. Oh, and perhaps putting a colorful shopping bag over the 30 round mag will make it look more friendly. ;>)
Good luck.....
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=213
Since you’re in California, AR15’s with quick-detachable magazines are banned. However you can buy off-list AR15’s with “bullet-button” magazine releases. In the event of a zombie attack, you can always replace the magazine release with the quick-release button. ;>)
Otherwise, I would recommend the Ruger Mini-14 or Mini-30.
You’ll be limited to 10 round magazines in any case.
You’re right. Gas discharge on a Garand soaks up some of that recoil, but the 03 shorts it all to your shoulder....I know exactly about what the kick is, especially with a long day of shooting....can you imagine what our troops in the Philipines had to endure with it?
Springfield 03.
Few moving parts. Knock down ammo (even if you don’t kill the animal, it won’t be standing) and good out to as far as you can see them.
Get a PAST pad for your shoulder and 85% of the recoil goes away.
Get a Remington 700 and a really good scope. This is the frame used for the Marine Corps’ standard sniper rifle, the M40. It would cost you about $5 - 6 thousand to fully outfit Marine Corps-style, but the basic rifle is excellent even out of the box. Probably cost in the $850 - $1,100 range.
Hope this helps,
LH
Contrast that with the cost of shooting a larger caliber bullet like that of the AK variants. 7.62x39 is selling for about $.25 per round (plus shipping if ordering online). At that cost, $15 would fill two thirty round magazines, good for all of five minutes at the firing range.
But to answer your second question (about what rifle to choose for a revolution), I'd have to agree with NavyCanDo and go with the AK-47 model of rifle. It is easy to maintain, fires an adequate caliber round, and is more reliable than any other gun on earth. Yes, there is a big debate about AR vs AK and the AR will out perform the AK in almost any test of accuracy. But the AK is accurate enough, and if you've never fired a rifle before, I'd say it is more accurate than you are (meaning if you're not hitting a man-sized target at 100 yards, it is because of you, not the rifle).
And of course if the Third War for Independence never comes, you will still have a really good rifle at the end of the day. A rifle for which there are plenty of after-market accessories and parts, and a rifle that would also make a very good burglar deterrent as opposed to some of the hunting rifles mentioned above.
“You’re in for a vacation to remember!”
Yes I am very excited about this one. This wife’s cousin gave me a bear claw the last time we visited, still haging on my bookcase, brings out a lot of questions from visitors.
Already have it.
On one of the cable channels the narraror described just the weapon you want. she said a fellow had a 9 mm pistol and a 45 mm pistol. That 45 mm pistol would really be all you need or want!
You could also probably get a pallet of ammo for another $100.
If you want to improve the odds of buying an accurate Moisin-Nagant, buy a Finnish one, not a Russian one. Russian quality control was wretched at times. The Finns captured and bought a lot of Russian M-Ns and rebarreled them. A difference of the barrel bands enable you to tell them apart.
One that I built up last year has a DPMS Lower, with a Model 1 Sales CAR A3 upper chambered in 7.62x39, drop on a nice reflex sight and some YHM flip up/down sights as a back up, in case you forget to turn the unit off... not that I've ever done that. ;-)
Toss on a some quality furniture like a multi-position stock and a Harris bipod... and it will do anything you need.
Nice groups and a round with a little more punch at distance, everyone that has fired the rifle loves it.
Well I’ll throw out my opinion for what it’s worth...
AKs on the whole will never be as accurate as ARs...it’s also harder to accessories or scope out an AK. AKs are definitely more reliable, but even they can have issues if they have out of spec parts or are assembled poorly.
ARs are accurate, much more ergonomic than an AK, and the skies the limit for accessories. They can be finicky and you have to keep the bolt and chamber clean.
If you get a 16” barrel AR (M-4gery), you MUST upgrade the extractor spring with an extra power Wolff spring, and preferably a rubber O-ring insert. This is because the gas port is closer to the chamber on 16” barrel, and the extraction process starts sooner, under higher pressures.
3 out of 4 AR’s I fired had extraction problems with the weak factory extractor spring. New Wolff springs fixed it.
While in Russia, you may shoot the Mosin-Nagant. As far as "bang" for "buck" goes, this is it. 7.62x54R that will rock your world for under $150.
I have one, and with a new synthetic stock from cheaperthandirt, the kick is much reduced.
I like my Mosin. I replaced the original shoulder-killing wood stock/metal buttplate with a synthetic stock from cheaper than dirt. I was able to put more than 5 rounds through it and still carry it back to my car. ;-)
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