Death certificate of WWI ace the Red Baron found in Poland

The Local.de ^ | 5 Dec 09

[GonzoII]

Death certificate of WWI ace the Red Baron found in Poland

Published: 5 Dec 09 18:03 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/society/20091205-23749.html

The death certificate of German World War I fighter ace Manfred von Richthofen has turned up in western Poland, the daily Gazeta Wyborcza reported on Saturday.

Genealogist Maciej Kowalski came across it in the archives of the town of Ostrow Wielkopolski, which was the base of his regiment and his last official address, the paper said.

Richthofen, a Prussian aristocrat dubbed the Red Baron from the favourite colour of his aircraft, was born in what is now Wroclaw in Poland, formerly Breslau, in 1892.

After scoring victories over 80 allied aircraft during the war, he was finally downed near Vaux-sur-Somme on April 21, 1918, though arguments still rage as to whether he was hit by ground fire or shot down by Canadian pilot Roy Brown.

Richthofen was buried in a local cemetery with full military honours by British and Australian troops, but his body was later moved to the family vault at Wiesbaden in Germany.

[IndyTiger]

And after Richthofen’s death, one of the later commanders of his squadron was Hermann Goering, who finished WWI with 22 confirmed kills. Richthofen was given a dignified burial by the British, though his remains were later moved home to Germany.

[Oberon]

Can’t hit that link from here. Can you summarize for me?

[GonzoII]

Sure.

It was about a 30 second snip:

“In Romania we defended an oil area, the Americans would come every day exactly at 11:00 like a train, they had one thousand bombers and five hundred fighters, we fought against them, there were four of us, we were completely overwhelmed.” - Erich Hartmann

[DallasDeb]

Very attractive. Sure looks the part.

[DallasDeb]

350 kills when drunk, 250 sober

Probably willing to take more chances when drunk.

[xone]

To get that many he would have had to live through the war, never would have survived flying drunk at the end. More likely Happy Hour BS.

[calex59]

Nope, many German pilots in WWII beat that easily, but you have to consider he was flying a bi-plane(and later a tri-plane), a slow flying aerial coffin. He had suffered a head injury and never quite recovered and that probably had more to do with him being shot down than anything else.

The top American ace in WWI only had about 18 to 20 kils, if I recall correctly, but we were only in the war a short time compared to other countries.

[PLMerite]

“Hartmen fought on the Russian front... not to diminish his achievement, but he was definitely working in a “target-rich environment.” “

I remember reading that Luftwaffe pilots considered shooting down one RAF fighter worth three Russians.

I don’t know how they rated American pilots.

[calex59]

Historical fact: Roy Brown, flying a Sopwith Camel, eventually shot down the Red Baron. It’s uncertain whether Snoopy’s namesake inspired his fantasies about WWI.

There is, and has always been, a controversy over who actually killed the Red Baron, ground troops claim they shot him down. I agree with you, however, that Brown actually brought him down.

[mikeus_maximus]

That is one lethal looking dude. But live by the sword...

[Tijeras_Slim]

Eddie Rickenbacker had 26 kills as leading American Ace in WWI.

[calex59]

Hartmen fought on the Russian front... not to diminish his achievement, but he was definitely working in a “target-rich environment.”

While several German pilots in WWII claimed(and rightly so)300 or so kills, you have to remember that most of those kills were achieved in Spain against antiquated fighters, in Russia, at the start of the war, against other antiquated fighters. When matched against the Spitfire they didn't do so well and the Hurricane took down a fair amount of ME(not BF)109 fighters as well.

Once the Americans entered the war with the P47(which was a great, but huge, fighter)and especially the P51 Mustang the German 109 was toast. The German FW 190 however was probably the best fighter of the war and Hitler was stupid(just one more example)for not boosting production and forcing all units to switch to them(we won't get into the ME162).

[calex59]

Thanks, I couldn’t remember the exact amount of kills he had.

[Harold Shea]

Back in the heyday of Napster that was the most difficults
song I found to download.

Long time ago I saw pictures of the Brit Honor Guard for
the burial,anyone have a link

Interesting,never knew he was still alive after landing

The poor devil almost made it to the end of the war

[SunkenCiv]

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	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks GonzoII. Of course, he still managed to force Snoopy down behind enemy lines -- at least that's what the only artistically valid anti-war song from the time of the Vietnam War claimed. :') Merry Christmas, my friends. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
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[BGHater]

Yeah, he has that bad ass look to him. RIP warrior.

[RDTF]

cool

[Richard Kimball]

Might as well post the song.

[Richard Kimball]

His original burial site is here.

After WWII, the Berlin Wall went over it, so he was exhumed and moved here.

Interesting fact; when he was re-interred, both the Germans and the British gave him full military honors.

[dangus]

Gee, I wouldn’t know near enough to take sides in an argument. :^)