Posted on 07/07/2009 11:27:46 AM PDT by Korah
I am in the middle of a debate with a leftist who is demanding that people are born gay. I showed them evidence of the APA dropping its "gay gene" claim and said the fact that there is no evidence that anyone is born gay, proves my point that homosexuals are not born gay.
The person I am debating claims no evidence does not prove my point, yet liberals do that all the time and I want to nail this b#s*ard. So if someone can help me now to prove this idiot wrong, I would appreciate it much.
Probably a big mistake to waste your time debating that kind of person. No evidence will be able to change his or her mind on the matter because the belief wasn’t born of any evidence in the first place. You would have to change the entire worldview just to get them to believe differently on this one matter.
Besides, who cares if there’s some gene that urges people towards homosexual behavior? It wouldn’t have any more of a moral impact on the issue of homosexuality than kleptomania would on the issue of theft.
Here are some excerpts.....
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting.
If you believe in creationism, then man and woman were formed to perform two separate and distinct sexual roles.
In either case, being sexually active with someone of the same sex is not normal (as in abnormal) and/or a violation of God's law.
There is no logical argument that supports homosexuality as normal, it may be a born trait, as in the case of birth defects, but it is in no way the natural order of things.
See what you homosexual friend thinks of that.
I want to win the debate, not be introduced to those who practice it in prison.
Human beings are not born anything except either a man or a woman (and it’s easy enought to which simply by standing in front of a mirror and having look).
With that, they must choose how to behave. We are all born with different desires, some are safe and good to indulge, other dangerous or evil to indulge (like desires that lead someone to be a serial killer).
It doesn’t really matter what desires someone is born with, they must use their mind to decide which to indulge and which to resist or even attempt to change, like someone who is constitutionally lazy, but overcomes it to become successful.
Being Gay really means indulging in homosexual behavior—which has to be chosen. It doesn’t just happen. Obviously if someone engages in that behavior they have a desire to do it. Were they born with that desire? Probably not, since we human beings have to learn what sex is and how it works and our sexual desires are mostly developed. Ultimately it does not matter, however, because even if they were born with the desire it doesn’t justify the behavior, because the behavior itself must be chosen.
People choose all kinds of self-destructive behavior. Have a look at the three abnormalities here. They could all equally claim to be born that way. Ask you friend if he things the other two behaviors are normal.
http://theautonomist.com/aaphp/articles/article80.php
You will not win the debate though. An individual who chooses the homosexual life-style has already shut down his rationality in that whole area of his mind and cannot reopen it. To maintain any sense of personal self-worth and integrity he cannot look at all the self-destructiveness and self-contradictions of what he is and does.
Hank
Korah: Maybe it proves he just dislikes ice cream all together, not just one flavor.
Are you serious? Then simply substitute "Swansons t.v. dinners" for "vanilla ice cream." See what I mean? This is, indeed, absolutely no evidence that Lincoln hated Swanson's t.v. dinners. There is not a single quote, or a single photograph supporting the assertion that he intensely disliked Swanson's t.v. dinners.
Therefore (according to your twisted logic), he must have actually liked Swanson's t.v. dinners.
Regards,
I don’t know, I think that there might be people who are born gay, not all, but some.
There are a disproportionate number of gays born into some families, like my husband’s family, on both his mother’s and father’s side. His one uncle had three gay children, two guys and a girl. The oldest one tried to deny it and married into a very prominent WA DC family, only to disgrace himself, his law firm and the family when he got caught in some homosexual situation. I went to that uncle’s funeral and the kids stood up and spoke about their father and how they loved him but didn’t like him because he could never accept their homosexuality. Well, it might have been easier to accept if the first one had foregone the society wedding and the subsequent scandal.
There are also numerous other gay cousins, but no evidence of homosexuality in the parents as far as I can see.
No one is born gay, just as no one is born a philanderer. Every human being has urges, its the ability to recognize and control them that seperates man from the beasts of the field.
The claim of being “born gay” is just as ludicrous as claiming one is “born nyphomaniac”. Its silly on its face. Psychologists readily recognize that nymphomania is a mental issue, not a biological one.. and up until the 70s did so with Homosexuality, until they decided to get political and drop it from the DSM IV because of politics not evidence to the contrary.
Propensity of a family can just as easily be attributed to environment as nature. Perhaps all 3 were molested by that gay uncle as youths leading them down a path toward homosexuality.
Lack of evidence does not prove the opposite argument. I do not believe there is enough (any?) evidence at this point to say that homosexuality is a choice either.
Personally, I think for some it is a choice, for others it is genetic, or perhaps a hormone imbalance.
So I guess by your anecdotal evidence. The Italian’s have a Mob gene, because so many have become Mobsters, at least in the past.
Just curious, maybe it doesn’t correlate.
There are MILLIONS of twins in the world..If just one of a set of twins is gay and the other is not..THEN THERE IS NO GAY GENE! PERIOD.
Someone once said when challenged about what was posited but yet unknown, “Scarcity of evidence is not evidence of scarcity,” still sounds like a tautology to me.
Judaism may be said to have invented the notion of homosexuality, for in the ancient world sexuality was not divided between heterosexuality and homosexuality. That division was the Bible's doing. Before the Bible, the world divided sexuality between penetrator (active partner) and penetrated (passive partner).
I assert that homosexuality is a mental disability along the same lines as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The only difference being that somehow it got accepted and a socially acceptable disorder so there is very little research being done to correct this chemical imbalance in their brain. It’s sad really.
Today it is both popular and profitable to be ‘gay.’
And you don’t even have to prove it.
That was three in one family, there was another cousin on that side (that I know of) and several on the other side as well.
I have known other families where all the kids are gay, as well.
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