Posted on 05/26/2009 11:04:51 AM PDT by Gomez
The University of Virgina collects and compiles information about students' computer use. The information has been collected over the past decade by student employees of ITC, known as Student Consultants (SCs) and formerly, Computing Advisors (CAs), a group of first-year students hired to advise and assist their peers with computing. The data is based on SC and CA surveys of first-year residence halls each fall.
They are obviously and effect marketing tool.
Of course, so were Obama’s ads.
I suppose.
It convinced me that I will never buy an Apple product, as the ads are dishonest.
Everyone has ads... It’s like a marketing expert said one time... “I know 50% of my advertising is effective, but I don’t know which half.”
In my case, after long experience, I can tell you that it’s the 50% that is not only effective, but has the product behind it... :-)
In Obama’s case, there’s “nothing” behind the ad... LOL...
The reason why I like the ads is that they are so true... and that makes them funny... :-)
You said — I don’t see him as bashing Macs per se, but rather the MacMania that some of their users have.
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Well, I think what you’re seeing, when referring to what was seen in those Apple stores, and people “drinking the KookAid” there — was not what he *or* you were thinking it was. You were thinking it was related to some kind of great devotion and “religious experience” of some kind..., and so, being “out of place” in the business world of hard knocks...
BUT, what was *really* going on was something that the business world of “hard knocks” should pay very close attention to. They were doing business better than any other retailer around, and thus “totally amazing” the customers in the process. Customers didn’t know that such a thing existed.
For one example, when the iPhone came out, I remember everyone being able to come in to the Apple store and get their “hands on” an iPhone and play with it, do all sorts of things with it, actually make calls to anyone in the U.S., anywhere, talk to them, have them call you back so you could see how it works, you could make conference calls and so on...
Now, I also went into an AT&T store at the time. There’s no way you could get your hands on any such thing, much less play around with it or make calls to see how it sounded or anything like that. Perhaps you might get a salesman to let you hold one for a minute but then he would be looking very intently at you, and rapping his fingers on the table, while you were doing it.
Apple lets you do that to all their machines there. You can do just about anything to them that you want. You can bring your kids there and let them play with the machines that they have set out for the kids to fiddle around with.
You go into other retailers and their machines are in *woeful condition* — sometimes barely working, shut down, a key might be missing, good luck if *anything* is working on those machines at all. I haven’t seen *any retailer* anywhere — do like Apple does in their stores. Nowhere...
And..., they don’t pressure you. They’re not going “hover” over you either. If you indicate, even just very minimally, that you don’t want any help at the moment, they’ll back off and just leave you alone. And..., the *very second* you want help — they’re right there on the spot, helping you. And then they’ll back off again, once you don’t want anything again.
Again, I haven’t seen that in *any* retailer, anywhere...
On top of that, if you’ve got any kind of problem with your Mac computer, whether it’s how to do a simple procedure, or you think you *might* have a hardware problem, but it could be a software problem — well, you just go to the “genius bar” and they’ll help you figure it out — no cost. If you don’t want to go into the store and find that you’re waiting in a “line” for five other people ahead of you, also wanting to talk to someone, all you do is before you go — you get on the Internet, you tell them when you’re going to be there and they’ll be *ready for you* exactly at the time you put in their “system” for having the “genius” help you.
Once again — I’ve *never* seen any retailer do that, so smoothly, so seamlessly and so expertly as Apple does it in their retail stores. Heck, you can bring that baby in every single day and talk to a “genius” there at Apple, if you want to.
SO..., when you say you see people “drinking the KoolAid” — I think *you* and other *retailers* have *absolutely no clue* as how to “retail” to customers.... LOL...
But, the customers *know* a good retailer when they see one. So, it’s not “religion” — it’s simply *better business* than anyone else has ever been able to do in the past.
For that, they’ve got a lot of people in the stores...
Also, see Post #125 for more reasons why people bring their computers in. You’ll notice that people can bring them in for simple “set up” problems that they’re having or maybe they’ll say, “This worked yesterday, but today, it quit...” and they’re referring to some setting on some software that Apple has, or a system setting or whatever.
Can you imagine getting that kind of thing done *anywhere*, at *any retailer* for *any manufacturer*? It never happens.
But, it does happen at the Apple Retail Stores... :-)
And that, I suppose, is why there are horse races.
I don’t like to be told what is “cool” and have no desire to be among the “in” crowd. And marketing attempts of that kind (like Obama’s ads) rub me the wrong way.
You said — I don’t like to be told what is “cool” and have no desire to be among the “in” crowd. And marketing attempts of that kind (like Obama’s ads) rub me the wrong way.
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I don’t know about you, but when I’m comfortable and taking it easy and just lounging around at home relaxing and even when using the computer — I look like that young guy (although I’m a lot older...). I have on jeans, a t-shirt, I’ve got sneakers and heck..., I do that because that’s what is “normal” for *me* to do...
Now..., if I were to “put on airs” and look like I was in the “in crowd” — then I would dress up in a suit, have on a tie, have polished shoes, and *make sure* everyone “knew” I was “successful” by the way I dressed..., and perhaps, go out and buy a PC, just to “look” like I was “in”.... (but at home, I would always use the Mac... :-)...).
But, since I don’t want to put on “airs” and make it look like I’m a “big guy” and make it “look” like I’m “successful” and so on, I don’t go out and buy a PC for “that look”...
That would be in the “in crowd” if I did all that “PC-stuff”... LOL...
For me..., I just like to be “normal”..., and being normal, that’s why I like the Apple Macintosh.
See, you’re cooler than me.
I have a beard, a stupid hat, bad hair, tend to dress in black and wear a woolen sheet and a box on my head in the morning.
Being “cool” is not for me. I just want a computer to work, and for what I do, a simple cheap XP machine is fine.
Well..., I didn’t mention my beard, but since you mentioned yours, likewise for me...
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So, what you’re missing is that the “cool factor” has not been the Apple Mac, it’s been the PC and thus, those who wanted to be “cool” got the PC.
On the other hand, those who just wanted to be normal, everyday people (i.e., a computer that “works” for them and others, and is not simply “cool” like the PC...) would get a Mac, because ordinary people don’t care about being cool.
That’s why the Mac ads work..., they have properly identified the “cool factor” (along with the “snob factor” and the “ignorance factor”) as properly belonging to the PC, while the Apple Macs are for just plain folk... :-)
That is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen on FR. The underlying OS on a Mac is BSD Unix - arguably the most open architecture available. Before you get your panties in a wad because people prefer to simply get things done as opposed to fixing things all the time, please at least attempt to check your facts...
Regarding "Drinking the Koolaid".....I know very few PC users who have a love affair with their computers. Conversely, I've not met a hardcore Mac user yet who didn't get incredibly defensive (just read this thread) when their overall orthodoxy was questioned.
Fools, all. A Computer is a tool....no more, no less. If it performs the functions you desire...Great! If you're willing to pay a premium for those functions, more power to you. If you're not, don't. But anyone who looks at a company who has slick-ly marketed, mass-produced electronics as a "lifestyle to emulate" or a "religion to follow" is a tragically unfulfilled person.
While it's true that Apple has been very successful marketing to these true believers - and been moderately successful marketing to everyone else - the fact of the matter is that 90% of the population uses their home computers for one or two tasks (think internet and email). They want simplicity and reliability, at a good cost. Businesses (by far the biggest users of PCs, and where the *real* money is) want the same things, along with easy interoperability and low maintenance overhead. Until Apple figures out a way to break into the Intel/Microsoft "low-cost, high-reliability" paradigm, they'll be relegated to niche business uses, and personal toys.
You were saying — Regarding “Drinking the Koolaid”.....I know very few PC users who have a love affair with their computers. Conversely, I’ve not met a hardcore Mac user yet who didn’t get incredibly defensive (just read this thread) when their overall orthodoxy was questioned.
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Well, if you want to put it in terms of “in love with” — I guess I could say that PC users seem to be “in love with” abhorrent service at retail stores when shopping, bad after-market service, when wanting some help with some item on their computer, and also love the rude salespeople (at least that I’ve seen repeatedly) at the stores. And talk about “push-button-hell” on the phone with service, they love that, too... LOL..
All those things are the opposite of what Apple Macintosh users (and other Apple product users) find at the Apple Retail Store and their after-market experience.
In that sense, Apple users hate what those PC users “love” (as described above) and love what those same PC users hate (that wonderful service, doncha know... LOL...).
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
And then you were saying — But anyone who looks at a company who has slick-ly marketed, mass-produced electronics as a “lifestyle to emulate” or a “religion to follow” is a tragically unfulfilled person.
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I’m puzzled that you bring that up about PC users. I thought you were supporting them... LOL...
And yes, you’re right, those PC users do flock after those “slickly marketed ads” showing them to be “cool” and “smart” and with the “in crowd” — and you’re right — that being a “PC user” has turned “into a religion”. If you don’t buy into that “religion” of a PC user, you’re dumb, not smart at all, are totally ignorant and don’t know how to do anything on a computer.... LOL..
I’m just surprised you’re using that argument for PC users.
On the other hand, Apple Mac users are just pleased to be ordinary people, not following the crowd, not being with the “in” group (as PC users like to say, “we’re 90% of the market”... LOL...). It’s PC users who use the moniker of “following the crowd”... :-)
Good ole Apple Mac user just like a good machine that works, works well, and where they get no better retail service or after-market service of *anyone* (of any retailer on the market of any product). I mean...., they’re just ordinary and smart consumers... that’s all...
— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
And lastly you were saying — They want simplicity and reliability, at a good cost. Businesses (by far the biggest users of PCs, and where the *real* money is) want the same things, along with easy interoperability and low maintenance overhead.
Well.., once again, you surprise me. I just didn’t expect you to be making the arguments on behalf of Apple. You’re exactly right. That’s what the Apple users want — simplicity, reliability and at a good cost. And consumers know a “good cost” when they see one (especially when they can go into the Apple Retail stores, at any time, and get things fixed up on their machines, if it needs a bit of tuning here and there or whatever, or something got out of whack or they did something they shouldn’t have) — and get all this stuff and service *for free*. They can even get training sessions at the store for various things that people want to learn about for free. I’ve seen these other retailers at other computer stores (the PC-world, doncha know) charging their customers for these things... LOL...
So, yes, the Apple consumers know a good deal when they see one... :-) Glad you see that, too...
Re: “Cal, sorry but your post reeked of FUD... with the implication being that Mac users were so dissatisfied with their Macs that they had to carry them back to the store for repair and servicing far in excess of what would be considered normal. I have seen the exact same statement/implication used by FUD spreaders. My apologies since the FUD shoe doesn’t seem to fit... or is it the glove? ;^)>”
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OK, I get it — sometimes the written word does not quite convey what we hope -— I was just asking a question — not implying anything is wrong with the Mac — I have considered getting one when this ancient HP breaks down.
That’s quite a screed you’ve written, there. I was going to make another point about the defensiveness of Mac users, but I’ll just let you make my point for me. :-)
I guess we define “cool” differently.
Speaking for myself, I don't need to rely on affirmation from a bunch of marketers. :-)
You said — I was going to make another point about the defensiveness of Mac users, but I’ll just let you make my point for me. :-)
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Ummm..., have you heard of “transference”? :-)
This is sort of like the “transference” in psychology of the computer market arena. You feel “cool” with PCs, so you engage transference and say that others are doing so only because of being “cool”...
You feel like a “lemming” in your PC world, following the crowd (that “90% crowd you’re proud of), so you say that those other Apple users are “lemmings” for following the “crowd” (ummm..., “what crowd”? LOL)...
You note your need of being defensive about PCs, therefore you transfer those feelings over to Mac users and say they are defensive...
I suggest a good psycho-analyst... LOL...
And for what it's worth, I just called a good psycho-analyst, his calendar was booked solid with people who can only get a sense of self-value from the computer that they use.
Sorry, just pointing out where the problem is... :-)
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