Posted on 05/23/2009 7:53:11 AM PDT by Siobhan7
The Catholic Church and the United States must be Destroyed
It’s a good school. Several of our church kids have gone through there and many other of our members/pastors are part of Elim as well. It’s certainly no cult.
Buh-bye.
No, I don’t ascribe to that movement. We aren’t fundamental pentecostals either. I don’t believe people who aren’t baptized won’t get into heaven, or that speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation. I know a lot of old time pentecostals and probably a few today believe that stuff, but it’s not for most of us in the charismatic movement. We’ve become more biblical in our viewpoint.
***No, I don’t believe in that. Mainly because it’s just not going to happen.***
I hadn’t realized that you belonged to such a church as this. http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/5/10/112924/148 tells a rather fascinating story. It claims that your Elim was taken over in 1963. You may wish to think about this group further.
I have never seen any evidence of the shepherding movement in the Elim churches or at Elim Bible Institute itself. We certainly don’t subscribe to those teachings in the churches around us. I’ve been to many conferences at Elim and these things don’t exist there.
You have no idea what kind of church I belong to, Mark. We certainly are no part of any shepherding movement. None of the Elim churchs I’m familiar with have anything to do with that movement or dominionism. Don’t believe everything you read, even in so called Christian magazines. I’ve NEVER exerienced anything of the sort and I’ve known a lot of people from Elim and a lot of churches. I think it’s a lie.
***I have never seen any evidence of the shepherding movement in the Elim churches or at Elim Bible Institute itself. We certainly don’t subscribe to those teachings in the churches around us. I’ve been to many conferences at Elim and these things don’t exist there.***
That’s interesting. Wikipedia says that:
Beliefs
Latter Rain proponents saw Pentecostalism as very dry in the post-war period, and in danger of slipping into a dry or mental formalism like many of their evangelical peers. Latter Rain doctrines addressed this formalism with a series of doctrinal and practical changes. These changes made the Latter Rain Movement distinct from the Pentecostal context from which it arose, and church life in Latter Rain influenced churches significantly different from traditional Pentecostal ones.
The Latter Rain brought in a new focus on the spiritual elements of Christianity including personal prophecy, and typological interpretation of Scripture, the restoration of the Five-fold ministry and a different eschatological emphasis. Many of the doctrinal emphases which later emerged, were outlined in seed form in George Warnock’s “Feast of Tabernacles,” which is the primary foundational text for the movement.
[edit] Eschatology
The Latter Rain broke with the dispensationalism which had become entrenched in the ranks of Pentecostalism. Dispensationalism tended to be pessimistic in its outlook whereas the Latter Rain emphasized a victorious eschatological outlook. Rather than attempting to simply save a few souls before rise of the anti-Christ, the Latter Rain emphasized the Church as overcoming and victorious in the fact that the church would come into “full stature” as taught by Apostle Paul.
The term “Latter Rain” stems from Bible passages as Jeremiah 3:3, 5:23-25, Joel 2:23, Hosea 6:3, Zechariah 10:1, and James 5:7. The idea of a “Latter Rain” was not new to the movement. In fact, it was present from the earliest days of Pentecostalism, which believed that the return of speaking in tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit marked the “Latter Rain” of God’s Spirit, and that these were signs of the coming end of history. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost had been the “former rain” that established the Church, but the current “move” of the Spirit was the “latter rain” that would bring the Church’s work to completion, and culminate in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, which was and is imminent.
[edit] Joel’s Army
A major feature of the expected latter rain would be the “Manifestation of the Sons of God.” or “Joel’s Army.” The Latter Rain movement taught that as the end of the age approached, that the “overcomers” would arise within the Church. There was debate among various branches as to the nature and extent of this manifestation. These Manifest Sons of God, ones who have come into the full stature of Jesus Christ would receive the spirit without measure. They would be as Jesus was when He was on earth, they would receive a number of divine gifts, including the ability to change their physical location, to speak any language through the Holy Spirit, and would be able to perform divine healings and other miracles. They would complete the work of God restoring man’s rightful position as was originally mandated in Genesis, and at last by coming into the full stature of Christ usher in the millennial reign of Christ. Extreme versions of this spoke of Jesus as a “pattern” Son and applied (Ps. 82:6) “ye are gods,” to this coming company of believers.
[edit] Ecclesiology
“The Sacrifice of Praise” and the restoration of the “Tabernacle of David” were important themes within the Latter Rain. Dancing, lifting of hands and spontaneous praise are marks of this movement. An effort was made to show the wrong of many Christians that deny the imperative form on these verbs.
A major theme of the Latter Rain was “unity” among the believers, in the church service, in the geographic region, and at large. They taught that God saw the church organized not into denominational camps, but along geographical lines as in the book of Acts. One church, but in different locations. They expected that in the coming last days, the various Christian denominations would dissolve, and the true church would coalesce into city wide churches under the leadership of the newly-restored apostles and prophets.
The Latter Rain taught that there would be a restoration of the five ministerial roles mentioned in Ephesians 4:11: [2] (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher). It was believed that the foundational roles of apostle and prophet had been lost after the time of the first apostles due to the Dark Ages, but that God was restoring these ministries in the present day. These ideas are part of the “prophetic movement” and “New Apostolic Reformation”.
[edit] Pneumatology
Unlike Pentecostals who traditionally held that the baptism of the Holy Spirit usually comes after prolonged “tarrying” or waiting for the Spirit, the Latter Rain movement taught that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be imparted on one believer by another through the laying on of hands.
It also says that:
Elim Fellowship and its college Elim Bible Institute in New York were the focus of much Latter Rain activity.
Any thoughts on this piece?
Go ahead. Retreat back into your zone of denial.
Don’t imagine things are any less true if you ignore them.
You’ve been in denial about your church teachings for years. Gulp down your bitter medicine.
None at all.
Looking over it, I agree with a lot of it.
Now comes the real anti-Catholic animosity at the heart of your motivations.
I don’t have animosity towards the Catholic church or Catholics. I do question their false teachings that may send its people to hell because they think they can be saved through baptism, the Eucharist, or even Mary. Yes, some people do believe that Mary is co-redemptrix. The fact that some of the fine people of the Catholic church could miss heaven because of that, disturbs me greatly, as it should you.
The Catholic Church has no false teachings. I doubt you could even articulate Catholic teaching on any of those things, yet someone has convinced you those teachings are false.
Now, the Catholic Church does have many teachings that differ with your own personal interpretation of Scripture. Not Her problem, though. Just yours.
Do you think co-Redemptrix is a teaching of the Catholic Church?
I think co-redemtrix is something that the church may not teach but it doesn’t stop it either. Too many folks are believing it and the Pope needs to speak out against it, if he hasn’t already.
And yes, the church does have false teachings, extra biblical stuff that has nothing to do with your salvation.
There are many things that the Church neither teaches nor stops. They were petitioned to teach co-Redemptrix doctrine but refused the petition.
And yes, the church does have false teachings...
Not the Catholic Church, no. Christ promised it would not and it does not.
...extra biblical stuff...
Sola scriptura is a false tradition of men.
Ah, dear. You just keep believing the church’s teachings. I pray you don’t miss eternity with Christ. HIS Word is the ONLY true Word. Ignore it to your peril.
Of course I will. That is why He founded it for us.
I pray you don’t miss eternity with Christ.
And I will pray a rosary for your delivery into truth.
HIS Word is the ONLY true Word.
That's why I remain in His Church.
Ignore it to your peril.
Absolutely! I'm very careful to remain as faithful as I can to His commands, including John 6:54-55:
54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.Ignore it to your peril.
55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
Praying the Rosary will get you nowhere. Eating a wafer will get you nowhere. Baptism as a baby will get you nowhere. So, where are you going? NOWHERE. I also pray for you.
I can trust you or the Church founded by Christ.
Eating a wafer will get you nowhere.
I can trust you or the Church founded by Christ.
Baptism as a baby will get you nowhere.
I can trust you or the Church founded by Christ.
Now, which do you think I will do?
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