[nickcarraway]

I recently saw a 1947 British move, The Brothers at an old movie house. There is a scene were two family patriarchs exchange elaborate insults in front of the whole village. One of my friends made the comparison with the modern exchanges. The Brothers (1947)

[Army Air Corps]

Striaght outta Glasgow, aye.

[1rudeboy]

Titled the Flyting Of Dunbar And Kennedy, it has been described by academics as "just over 500 lines of filth".

[1rudeboy rushes off to place the title on his Amazon wish list]

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Aye lad, yo whaddup 50 Shilling?

[HerrBlucher]

Well, here is a rap song from 1962 anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ9U4Cbb4wg

[doodad]

Including pirates. Yo ho ho and all that.

[Churchillspirit]

"See you, Jimmie...."

[Army Air Corps]

Amusement ping.

[SunkenCiv]

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[Question_Assumptions]

In his book Black Rednecks and White Liberals, Thomas Sowell makes a similar argument about other elements of black culture, including some of the more negative ones.

[sionnsar]

"Flyting" isna rap!

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[weegee]

There may be something to this. I’ve said that there is a tradition of talking in rhythm over music in country music (whether it is Smoke The Cigarette, One Piece At A Time, The Hot Rod Race are only a few examples that come to mind).

And country/hillbilly music has its origins in the Southern Appalachian Mountains of North America.

I’ve also read that the roots of country music lie in the folk music that English, Irish, and Scottish settlers brought to America.

So there is a continuim that does not even need “slave owners/importers” to be considered a factor in this equation.

[weegee]

The whole bit about “insults” and vulgarity (in rhyme?) being the basis of rap is wrong.

That would be “the toast” which was the boast and pomp of pimps, who served as inspiration to modern rappers. But there were a number of other pimps who went into music as singers without incorporating that into their act.

Pimps would have spent time in jail and there could also be a whole jail culture for boasts, vulgarity, oneupsmanship, and style. Also the use of “hip” lingo to keep the man, or the boss (on the plantation) from knowing what you are talking about; even Lord Buckley, who was rapping in the 1940s and 1950s, explained this aspect.

Also, there is Cockney Rhyming Slang that again predates all of this.

Does one begat the other? Who knows. There may be a thing within man to speak in code and to bring a smile to the face of those who are hip to what he’s saying.

[sauropod]

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