Did Muhammad Ever Really Live?

Spiegel (Germany) ^ | 9/18/2008

[Perdogg]

A number of Islamic associations have put a quick end to their collaboration with a professor -- and trainer of people who are supposed to teach Islam in German high schools -- who has expressed his doubt that Muhammad ever lived. Islam scholar Michael Marx spoke with SPIEGEL ONLINE about what lies behind the debate and the historical person of the Prophet.

[Perdogg]

Kiss Germany good bye.

[Perdogg]

ping

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Already covered that question here.

[WayneS]

If Muhammed never lived then how did Allah get all of his xenophobic, sexist, racist, violent teachings written down?

[mothball]

He lived, but is now in a place waiting to be cast into the Lake of Fire. May intense heat be upon hime.

[mass55th]

Along the same line:

We Are Losing Europe to Islam

[mass55th]

If Muhammad never lived, who really got all those virgins?

[WayneS]

Well it wasn’t ME, I can tell you THAT!!

[jrg]

If Muhammad never lived, who really got all those virgins?

I never understood why the virgin thing is such a big deal to these guys. I mean, really, who wants virgins?
They are usually a lousy lay.
I'd rather have a divorced 32 year old that knows what she's doing.

[weegee]

Time Magazine, ABCDisney, and PBS would never dare ask this question during an Islamic holy season. And certainly not EVERY Islamic holy season.

[Longstreet63]

Does it matter if he lived or not? Hmm? Muslims are the problem today, not Muhammad and whether or not he existed...It’s a matter for historians and religious scholars...it is interesting though...

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Muhammad, whether he was a real living person, or a imagined thing... he still is a leader of a death cult that is the Islamic Muslims....

[TexanToTheCore]

The point of the 72 virgins appears to be the corruption of innocence.

Very disturbing....

[Philo-Junius]

Muhammad is remarkable amongst legendary religious founders, in that he is at once supposed to have been a regionally significant secular figure who somehow left no mark amongst his contemporaries of his existence.

On balance, I’m inclined to believe that a man named Muhammad did exist, but that his secular role was embroidered over time and that he was presented post-facto as the leader of the Arab conquest when he was more likely just its most “spiritual” capo who provided the theological justification for the “bandit socialism” the Quraysh and their allied tribes were imposing on the region.

[Kevmo]

This ought to be an interesting thread to watch. We get a lot of extreme idealogical cynicism on the crevo threads to the point that evos question whether Jesus even existed. Using that same standard, there are virtually no other historical figures that would survive the scrutiny. Especially Mohammed.

[Philo-Junius]

That Muhammad, according to tradition, made no clear arrangements either for a successor or even for the process by which a successor should be chosen indicates strongly that Muhammad’s secular role in the community, if any, was exaggerated.

The whole Shi’ite/Sunni struggle is a central indication of the historical sand upon which much Muslim tradition is built.

[VOA]

That Muhammad, according to tradition, made no clear arrangements either
for a successor or even for the process by which a successor should
be chosen indicates strongly that Muhammad’s secular role in
the community, if any, was exaggerated.

After seeing the PBS (and mostly-Saudi financed) documentary
"Legacy of The Prophet"...
I was convinced that Muhammad simply built a Bushido code that
governed a gang of thugs in a tough (desert) environment.

And that the same philosophy guides orthodox (Wahhabi) Islam to
this very day.
It just got suppressed for about a hundred years by the success
of Western Civilization/Technology.

Until some of Muhammad's successors learned how to harness some
of the technology of The Great Satan.

[longtermmemmory]

I don’t think any serious scientist questions the existence of Christ because there are waaaay too many NON-biblical references to his physical presence in the area. (roman records etc.)

[Kevmo]

I don’t think any serious scientist questions the existence of Christ because there are waaaay too many NON-biblical references to his physical presence in the area. (roman records etc.)
***That’s been my point as well. Guys like Soliton who like to claim they uphold science tend to belittle science when it confirms what they don’t like.

The Historicity of Jesus Christ [Open Thread under Religion Moderator’s Guidelines]
Monday, August 04, 2008 1:19:19 PM · by Kevmo · 84 replies · 835+ views
History | August 3, 2008 | Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2056400/posts

[Citizen Blade]

I was convinced that Muhammad simply built a Bushido code that governed a gang of thugs in a tough (desert) environment.

That's a good point. Islam, as an ideology, is well-designed for a group of conquerors. It turned a group of squabbling desert hicks on the periphery of the civilized world into a world power.

And that the same philosophy guides orthodox (Wahhabi) Islam to this very day.

Wahhabiism is a pretty recent creation- the 1700's, IIRC. It's too legalistic and burdensome to be useful for the type of expansionism that went on in the early days of Islam. The only reason we've seen Wahabbi ideology spreading lately is because the Saudis have oil money to finance that expansion.