Posted on 04/06/2007 11:22:22 PM PDT by Dacb
MADRID, Spain (3 Apr 2007) -- In February 1694, British admiral Francis Wheeler set sail from the Bay of Gibraltar with an important mission.
He was to bring a large sum of money to the Duke of Savoy in order to buy his loyalty and to ensure victory in Britain's ongoing war against France's Sun King Louis XIV.
But when the HMS Sussex arrived in the Strait of Gibraltar, it was hit by a violent storm, and Wheeler struggled in vain to save it.
The 50-metre warship went down with more than 500 men, 80 cannons and an estimated 10 tons of gold coins on board.
Three centuries later, a US company specialized in underwater treasure hunts intends to haul up what is believed to be the world's richest sunken booty.
Florida-based Odyssey Marine Exploration has reached an agreement with the British and Spanish governments to explore a wreck it believes to be that of the Sussex at a depth of about 800 metres.
The value of the gold coins is estimated at up to 3.3 billion euros (4.4 billion dollars).
If the treasure is found, it will be split between the explorers and the British government, the legal owner of the ship which once sailed under its banner.
Not everyone is happy about the pioneering public-private deal, with some archaeologists fearing that the involvement of commercial companies could lead to a global scavenging of shipwrecks littering the world's oceans.
Odyssey, however, says it is committed to protecting the underwater cultural heritage and to developing a practical standard for commercial and academic coordination on shipwreck recovery.
Odyssey had already done exploration work on the wreck thought to be the Sussex, but was ordered to interrupt it in 2006 over Spanish fears that it was not respecting the conditions set by Madrid.
Archaeologists appointed by the Andalusian regional authorities will now participate in the operation, and the central government also pledged to keep a watchful eye over it to prevent any archaeological 'pillaging' on Spanish territory.
It is actually unclear whether the wreck is in Spanish waters, but Madrid wants to make the rules clear in view of possible explorations of Spanish wrecks later on.
Spain is believed to be one of the world's richest underwater treasure houses. More than 700 wrecks dating from the 16th to the 19th centuries are estimated to lie in its waters, many of them possibly loaded with gold and silver plundered in Latin America.
'There is more gold in the Gulf of Cadiz than in the Spanish national bank,' archaeology professor Manuel Martin Bueno said.
There is also the possibility that the wreck located by Odyssey is not the Sussex, but a Spanish galleon, another reason why Madrid wants to keep its explorers under control.
Odyssey Marine Exploration scanned about 1,000 square kilometres of sea bottom with sonars in its search for the Sussex.
It located 418 wrecks and other targets, only one of which contained cannon. It was positioned near to where the Sussex reportedly foundered.
The site is too deep for divers, but Odyssey intended to use search and recovery vessels, side scan sonar equipment and robots, the company told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.
Odyssey has formerly found several treasures, including gold coins and artifacts worth 75 million dollars off the US coast in 2003.
The length of the new exploration depends on many factors and cannot yet be determined, company sources said.
Leaving ships on the ocean floor undisturbed does nothing for anybody. They all should be salvaged as much as possible.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)
My problem with the whole story is that the English government is still asserting a 300+ year old claim to this money, and people are actually RESPECTING it!
Good Lord! This is gold that went down over three centuries ago, not in waters ruled by England. It was treasure that was to be used to pay a foreign potentate for his troubles in a war. Shouldn’t the money properly belong, if to anybody that long ago, to the Duke of Savoy? And since Savoy has been dissolved into France, shouldn’t it just as well go to the French government as the English?
1694. England was under a different government a different ruling family. Let me put this another way: if the modern descendents of the English government, or ANY government, has the right to assert a property claim over property lost that long ago, then the modern descendants of slaves have the absolute right to claim the wages, with interest, for the stolen labor of their ancestors in the much, much more recent past.
It is absurd for England to get ANY of this treasure. It does not belong to England anymore. If it’s in Spanish water, it belongs to Spain. If it’s in nobody’s water, then it belongs to whomever dredges it up.
It’s totally absurd for there to be any consideration at all to an English claim over money in a ship England lost 313 years ago.
Should we expect the Mexican (Mayas) & Peruvian (Incas) governments to become involved next? Where does 'it' stop?
“where does ‘it’ stop?”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/968120/posts
Egyptian Jurists Sue ‘The Jews’ for Compensation...of Gold Allegedly Stolen During Exodus from Egypt
NEVER?
Isn't there a written Jewish 'confession'?
Most everyone who reads these posts loves archeology and history—but who really thinks any academic archeological expedition could ever be funded to these depths without the lure of treasure?
Be thankful for what you get.
Exodus: And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they asked of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment.
Seems most reasonable...they hadn't been paid for their labours for hundreds of years...IMO what is behind this action is an attempt by the arabs to blackmail the Jews into using the defense argument that the Exodus never happened, that scripture is not trustworthy...something they know they might reasonably expect of secular left-wing Jews. That then, sets precedent against Israel's claim to Jerusalem and the 'promised land'. Remember, the arab mind is utterly, totally, DEVIOUS!
You make an interesting legal & moral argument — one that I happen to agree with. There’s one problem though: the salvage will take place at sea & Spain & England have navies with which to assert their ‘rights’.
Yes, there is an English and a Spanish Navy. The English have said they want 1/2. So, I turn to the Spanish, who stand to get nada, and I say: I will give you 1/3rd, because this appears to me to be in Spanish waters - I concede the point about territory. Now the Spanish have a dog in the fight, and I’ve chosen which master I will pay, for less money too. Do the Spanish just give in to the English? No. What are the English going to do, have a naval battle at sea with Spain?
If the Spanish and the English connive, I pull back a bit and I call Paris and say “you are the heir of the Duke of Savoy, this is YOUR money” and I offer Paris HALF. Now the French get involved too.
If they’re going to steal my money, I may as well get them fighting like cats and dogs over it, and doing the maximum diplomatic damage to each other. I may have to pay anyway, but I can sure make it hurt.
If they ALL connive, I call off the excavation.
There should be a global finders-keepers law that allows anyone who find treasure to keep it, just like that diamond mine in Arkansas.
Strange that the Moslem mind (what passes for one) doesn’t see any contradiction between that lawsuit and Hawass et al’s claim that the Exodus never took place, that Egypt never had slavery, blah blah blah.
“...that the Exodus never took place, that Egypt never had slavery, blah blah blah.”
He’s a FINK, that Finklestein!
The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman, Free Press, 2001
By Heather Campbell
“The historical saga contained in the Bible — from Abraham’s encounter with God and his journey to Canaan, to Moses’ deliverance of the children of Israel from bondage, to the rise and fall of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah —was not a miraculous revelation, but a brilliant product of the human imagination.”
http://www.gaiaguys.net/Bible.Unearthed.htm
It’s NOT the gold of the Exodus that is at stake - the arabs seek justification for the annihilation of Israel by discrediting an ancient claim to territory. And people like Finklestein are making this almost too easy for them.
You can recoup ALL the money by putting the resulting catfight on Pay Per View...
Cheers!
By treaty and custom warships belong in perpetuity to the nation that launched them or their successor state, if any.
“By treaty and custom warships belong in perpetuity to the nation that launched them or their successor state, if any.”
Do you agree with the treaty and the custom?
What do you think about respecting treaties with the Indians? (Or is the custom there that we break them, and that’s ok?)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
