Posted on 01/13/2007 12:00:03 PM PST by scott says
Different situation altogether. Perhaps you can tell us of a time an NFL coach under contract who went to another NFL team.
College to NFL or NFL to College is not the point. These contracts are made under NFL auspices and totally binding. Hence should a team fire a coach under contract he still gets the money for the remaining years.
Welcome aboard. My bet is the AFC champ will NOT want to face the Bears if avoidable.
Anyone should be able to see that this team could put it all together and be explosive.
Yesterday's game is a good example. Seattle played very well and managed to almost win yet were in constant danger of being blown away. Only through bad breaks did the Bears not score at least two more touchdowns. Hester's td would have put it away had it stood. And they only let him field it cleanly because they were kicking from deep in their territory without time to mess around with directional kicking. Seattle did an excellent job most of the game keeping him from cleanly fielding the ball. They almost had two blocked punts, too.
I don't believe the Bears have played their best game yet.
Sort of yes and sort of no. Remember there's tons of success stories in the NFL that were drafted late (Tom Brady) or not at all (Willie Parker). It's a gamble every time. For every Parker there's a Leaf, for every Brady there's a Bengal facing charges. It wasn't that long ago that you were insisting Orton would have an excellent career and the people wanting him out and Rex in were idiots, I told you then predicting future success is a fool's bet because you never even know if the person is ever going to play again. Well inbetween you touting Orton and now the Bears brought in another QB to backup Rex and now Orton is the #3 guy on the depth chart, so much for his star going now where but up, currently his star is going no where at all.
I realize you're just another sports fans who deals in frivilous absolutes, and this time next year you might not even be willing to aknowledge that Rex ever was a Bear. But I only deal in one absolute, and that is the absolute of avoiding absolutes. If you want to insist Rex is the awesomist Bear ever (which his stats clearly show he isn't) and that he's only going to get better (which the history of NFL players say is a doubtful statement no matter who you try to apply it too), go right ahead. But say it near me and I'll point to reality, the reality is that Rex's greatness is tempered with some large doses of suckiness, and who the hell knows what's going to happen to him next season and beyond.
The more I watch the playoffs, the more I am convinced that Al Davis was right back in the seventies with an answer to a reporter's question. "Mr. Davis," he said, "if you had two all-pro choices in starting off a new NFL team, what would they be?"
With no hesitation he said "Right cornerback and left cornerback."
My point is that the DBs of the playoff teams--in general--are so much better than on the non-playoff teams. They need to be able to man-cover and they cannot miss tackles. Your guys are playing well and hopefully Hester, Rex and your dee will get the job done against the Saints. Good luck!
"It wasn't that long ago that you were insisting Orton would have an excellent career and the people wanting him out and Rex in were idiots," Orton will have an excellent career from anything I have see. I saw no need to switch last year out of pique with Orton when it was still unclear that Grossman was totally healed. Nor did events show that I was wrong since the playoff collapse was in the Defense. Just as it had been in the game at Pittsburgh.
Orton is so well considered by the Bears that he has had a contract extension. Angelo getting Griese was a smart move which disarmed the complainers that he did not sign a veteran qb for 2005. Orton not being as accomplished as a veteran like Griese is not a surprise. The surprise is that all three qbs have not HAD to play. THAT is the typical scenario around Chicago. If you have me pegged as one who thought little of Grossman's abilities you are wrong.
Of course, one never knows how long a player can play but that doesn't mean one cannot recognize talent.
"Frivolous absolutes..." not at all. I have seen many great players over the years. They are not hard to spot. In predicting one cannot be paralyzed by the realization that any of us could be dead the next minute.
Year after year Pittsburgh lost players to free agency yet knew enough to be able to replace them one by one and remain at a high level of excellence. Year after year other franchises squandered their drafts. Was either just Luck? I don't think so.
"It was his runback against the Giants of our missed field goal that effectively ended that game and arguably, our season." Every time he touches the ball the play becomes electric and there is a great chance that he will go all the way. Seattle did everything it could to keep the ball our of his hands and it was not enough. I agree that play had a devastating effect on the Giants' season as the Bears game last year did as well.
I feel good about our cornerbacks with Tillman returning to health but would still go after others high next year. It is amazing to see one of our old cbs, Walt Harris, doing so well this year after being run out of Chicago.
It is clear to me that, if the Bears play up to their capabilities, no one can beat them. Two turnovers or less and we will win.
Just because they gave him a contract extension doesn't mean they think highly of him, it means they like him in a particular role. If they thought highly of him that role wouldn't be 3rd QB. They got Griese because they wanted somebody who could actually move the offense if Rex got hurt, Orton's primary strength was that he didn't make completely horrid mistakes, but the offense never got going under him. I'm not saying you thought little of Grossman's abilities, I'm saying that you said they should stick with Orton, which you did.
Rex has moments of greatness, he also has moments of suckitude. His game by game QB rating is interesting reading, with 10 games over 100 (second most in the league) and 5 games under 50 (most in the league) it's clear that Rex runs hot and cold in the extremes but really hasn't found any middle ground (15 of his 16 starts were either stellar or crap). Maybe with experience he'll bring up the bottom, or maybe with the confidence of his success this season he'll bring down the top. There have been plenty of talented QBs whose egos get in the way of their success (Jeff George anyone, great arm, good accuracy, completely unwilling to hit the checkdown necessary for real success).
Some of it is always luck, some of it is always skill. In the NFL way too much of the difference between bad players and great players is mental, without a skilled psychic figuring out which players are going to go in which direction is primarily guess work. Having made hiring decisions myself, and regretting some while reveling in others, I know one can look for tells but in the end it's guesswork and bets.
In the playoff game last year Grossman played fairly well but had the defense not fallen down (literally) the Bears would not have been playing from behind and could have easily won that game under Orton as they had done in the earlier crushing of Carolina. Very few rookies have ever won as many games at qb as Orton did. Switching to Grossman did not make any big difference which was what I said. I did not believe he could come in and play very well not having started a single game. He played better than I feared.
A two to one stellar to crap rating for essentially a rookie would be acceptable to most teams.
The point is some people are much better guessers than others and no sure things. Fortunatley Angelo seems to be in a good guessing mode.
While there was one big mistake in the Bears defense last season (single covering Smith with a rookie) that cost them the game it's hard to forget that under Orton the Bears offense just plain stunk. Sure they didn't make a lot of turnovers, but when you're constantly 3-and-outing you don't get a lot of opportunities for turnovers.
And speaking of defensive mistakes watch out this weekend. The Bears defense hasn't been playing that well down the stretch, and they're going up against an offense that is capable both of grinding the clock and big plays. Unless the Bears D returns to the form they had in the first half of the season it could be a very long day for the home crowd.
Depends on how bad the crap is. Rex got lucky in that the defense and special teams pulled his fat out of the fire and the team won most of his crap games. If all 5 of those games are losses the acceptibility of his stats drops way down, in the end it's the Ws and Ls that cost QBs their jobs the other stats are just seasoning.
Maybe Angelo is in a good guessing mode, maybe not. Only time will tell for sure.
Smith was fortunate that the Bears corner slipped or fell down on two of his tds and the third came because two Bears hit him from opposite sides allowing him to stay upright and make the catch. A rookie was used because of injuries. There was no one else available.
That was the case with Orton too. Given his inexperience I admired his performance.
If the Bears defense plays like it did in September NO won't stand a chance but I don't think any other team would either. I don't think it can play up to that level given the absence of Tommie Harris but think it will play well enough to win IF the Bears have no more than two turnovers.
They had two Sunday against a more experienced team than the Saints.
The problem wasn't necessarily that they used a rookie, the problem was that they used just a rookie. Due to injuries and the depth chart by that point last year's Panthers had a very 1 dimensional offense, that dimension was Smith. The Seahawks killed the Panthers the next week by triple covering Smith and daring them to find another way to move the ball.
It's going to depend on a couple of things. If the weather manages to slow NO down the Bears will win, if the Bears figue out what's been going on and get their defense back in line they'll win, if Rex has another game like the bad 5 the Bears are hosed.
In the first game Smith had 169 yds. but no tds. That was what they were hoping for in the P.O. game. However, the miserable footing at Soldier allowed him to slip through for scores in the last one. If the cb or safety can't keep their feet it makes little difference if they are rookies or not.
It looks as though the weather is not going to be a factor. Mild weather is predicted. Since Grossman is playing as well as any P.O. qb I am not worried about him.
But they should have had him at least double teamed. The Panthers came into that game with their 1st and 3rd string RBs hurt and their 2nd stringer got hurt early. When facing a team with no serious second receiver threat, a 4th string RB, and statistically the best WR in the game what should the defense do? Cover the hell out of that WR. The Seahawks showed exactly what the Bears could have and should have done. it was a bad gameplan by Lovie.
But with Grossman the previous game gives no real indication of the next game. The Grossman that showed up against the Cards, the Vikes and the Packers could rear his ugly head again. Should be worried about Grossman until he gets through the 1st quarter, that's the good news about Rex if he starts well he'll be fine all game.
One on the scores came WITH him double-teamed, on the other two the primary cover man fell down.
I am not worried at all about Grossman. His problems have not been that many and the media hysteria they generated totally unwarranted. In fact, he would have been a Pro Bowl qb without that hysteria. But he managed to blow up on games with a lot of national converage so the "Inconsistency" got a lot of currency.
Sometimes big players will still beat the double team. But they'd have had a better chance against him consistently double and eve triple teaming him.
5 of Rex's starts his stats were positively horrific. The media attention is richly deserved for those games, look at the number:
Ariz - 4 INTs, 2 fumbles, 10.2 rating
Mia - 3 INTs, 1 fumble, 36.8 rating (his best of the terrible games)
NE - 3, 1, 23.7
Min - 3, 0, 1.3
GB - 3, 1, 0
Those stats are a nighmare. The Pro Bowl voting is silly anyway (how in the hell does Merriman get in the Pro Bowl after being suspended for 4 of the 12 games that happen before selection is done?!) so that doesn't matter. But his inconsistency is very real, and when he's not playing well the Bears would be better off having pretty much any randomly selected member of the team lining up under center.
"...when he's not playing well the Bears would be better off having pretty much any randomly selected member of the team lining up under center." Don't be silly. I have seen pretty much that in the past. It is far uglier than anything Rex has done.
Even after posting horrible numbers in two of those games Rex brought the team back to win and in another it almost pulled out a victory. Grossman has shown the ability to come back from a decifit and a bad showing.
He has great potential and should be our leader for years to come. If allowed to become a free agent after this year Grossman will get huge offers from other teams.
you can't get uglier than a 0.0 QB rating.
Rex had nothing to do with the comeback against AZ, the best he managed to pull in that game was to stop screwing up and actually give the defense and special teams a chance to pull off the win. Same thing in Minnesota. The only reason they even came close in the NE game is that Brady was having almost as bad a day as Rex. So no Rex hasn't shown that at all.
Many players have great potential, but Rex also has shown the potential to be a terrible game losing QB. I doubt Rex will get huge offers, any GM willing to fork over a huge contract to a player who had games like that, especially one carrying Rex's injury baggage, should be fired on the spot. If Rex hits free agency he shouldn't be given any offer bigger than any other normal so-so journeyman, maybe strap some incentives onto it so that if Rex actually does improve he can turn the contract into something big. But there's just no way a guy finishing his only year as a fulltime starter with 20 INTs and 8 fumbles should be handed star QB money.
I'm not surprised by this decision given the 14-2 record this year and the way mistakes by players cost us the game last Sunday. I hope Cameron returns as offensive coordinator because he has generally been a good play caller. Marty's emphasis on short to medium-length passes and only short passes to running backs probably cuts down on interceptions, and that kind of offense could win it all when combined with a truly outstanding defense. But I still think we need to expand our passing playbook and hopefully that will happen after the coaching staff reviews the game videos and looks at the passing plays to LT that worked so well this year.
Everyone of these “experts” on ESPN site are predicting the Saints to win. Hmmm.
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By the way anyone, will that big snow storm in the midwest be already past Chicago by game-time tomorrow?
I just looked at the radar and that storm is big but is moving pretty fast.
I just did a little more investigating on game day weather in Chicago. It looks like all the heavier snow will be basically over by the later game time start of 3:00 p.m.
But, there is listed on a Chicago weather site a 100% chance of light snow during the game.
Boy, if this storm were about six hours later this may have been a white out game.
LOL
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