Posted on 12/16/2006 4:25:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv
Rabbi S. David Sperling, isn't certain that Moses even existed or, if he did, whether the Bible provides much reliable information about him. Sperling contends that if traditional accounts of the origins of Judaism had not recorded a founder, "analogy would have required postulating him; and that is probably what happened" when ancients wrote the Bible... The introduction to Moses' life from another writer says "we cannot really reconstruct a biography of Moses. We cannot even be sure that Moses was a historical character." ...Conservative Judaism's official Torah commentary (2001) states that what should concern Jews is "not when, or even if, Moses lived, but what his life conveys in Israel's saga." It calls Moses a "folkloristic, national hero." This fading Moses, of course, departs radically from long-standing tradition. The "13 Principles" of the revered 12th-century sage Maimonides, for example, insisted that Moses lived as Judaism's supreme prophet through whom God gave the Torah. And the Book of Exodus, of course, recounts Moses' career in considerable detail... Orthodox Rabbi Shalom Carmy of New York's Yeshiva University... observes that liberals hold the biblical text "doubted until independently proven true," while for fellow traditionalists "it is true unless conclusively disproved."
(Excerpt) Read more at nctimes.com ...
See Fred Nerks comment #32. It would not have been at the end of the Old Kingdom which was ended at a time of chaos around 2,000 BC. There were world wide catastrophes around that time period. This may in fact have been part of the impetus for Abrahams migration toward Egypt. The bible lists the number of years from Abraham's family's arrival in Egypt to the Exodus as over 400 years. The bible's time from the Exodus to David's construction of the Temple was another 400 plus years. This puts the Exodus in the 1400-1500 BC time frame. A wide spread, long term disaster is not indicated for that time period.
My guess is the reign of Amenhotep II. He succeeded after the death of Tutmosis I who died in his 90's. His queen Hatshepsut was coregent for possibly 20 years. Her successor did everything possible to erase her hame. Perhaps she adopted the young Moses. I am not aware of her having any ofspring of her own. As soon as Tutmosis died, vassal states in the Israel/Palestine area revolted and he had to make a number of expeditions to settle them down. I think that his reign was about 38 years. If, in fact Moses was seen as a rival and fled into the "wilderness", he could have wandered as a nomadic herdsman until word (which could have taken a year or two) reached him that his bitter enemy was dead. Then it would have been safe to move into "the promised land."
This puts the Exodus in the 1400-1500 BC time frame. A wide spread, long term disaster is not indicated for that time period.
------
Oh yes it is:
http://www.geocities.com/regkeith/linkipuwer.htm
I am well acquainted with Velikovski, having read three of his books 25 or 30 years ago and found them interesting and intellectually stimulating.
However, I am also familiar with Ipuwer's writing, and if you will do some further research I think you will find that it is more recently accepted that Ipuwer was writing at the time of the end of the Old Kingdom and the First Intermediate Period which was the circa 2,000 BC period of worldwide catastrophes I referred to earlier in this post.
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/other/religious/RI-19.php
This author, without giving credit, draws from Velikovsky's Ages in Chaos. If you are stuck on dates, you need to study revised egyptian chronology.
"His inspiration was the little known tomb in southern Egypt of a regional governor, Ankhtifi. The hieroglyphs there reported "all of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger to such a degree that everyone had come to eating their children".
He was named and raised as an Egyptian Prince.
Also he was not "Jewish". He was a Levite, of the tribe of Levi.
Juda was a different tribe, though he was the leader and Prophet to all the 12 tribes.
"to such an old thread"? This was started on the 16th. :')
That's right. And to the Egyptians, they were all known as "habiru".
Sorry 'bout that! I meant to say that it was a thread in which the number of responses was diminishing... /grin
The Egyptians didn't refer to the Hebrews and "Habiru" or "Apiru", although that is a common misconception.
:') No apology necessary, it was meant as a joke. :'D Okay, so I'm not funny... Anyway, thanks!
I'd be interested in any sources or links to this that you might have. Thanks!
I see where I was not very clear. The word from which Moshe's name is derived--Mishiseehu-- means "I drew him". It is not the reference to the Nile as in the names of the Pharoahs. The only mention is "from the water" not from the Nile, so there is no allusion to the Nile in Moses' name.
Just as a matter of faith, which I do not expect anyone else to embrace, I regard the Torah as authoritative. This is even logically (as well as theologically) compelling, if one accepts the Torah as a contemporaneous source for the source of Moses' name.
Thank you again for sharing your interesting thoughts.
Thanks to you as well for an interesting and thoughtful discussion.
thanks blam...here's some food for thought re carbon dating.
http://www.varchive.org/cor/baker/620402bv.htm
Tree-rings worldwide indicate catastrophic events centered around 1628BC (which I believe is the Exodus date) and 1159BC.
The Minoian Eruption (Santorini)
Interesting, thanks. Particularly this:
"The burning of the Minoan palaces happened around 1450 BC."
1628 BC would be the Santorini/Thera eruption which has been pretty well researched and documented. I don't think this influenced the Exodus although it might have impacted the Hyksos period.
I have not come to any conclusions yet about 1159 BC, but am still looking. My thought is that Etna eruption of 1500 + - 50 years, my have been part of a regional period of vulcanism, including events in the Arabian/North Africa region. Still looking for more information.
Have done a lot of research on the Caribbean Plate events of 1902, and some other wide spread vulcanism events.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.