Personal qus: British/Irish ancestry among Americans, Canadians, and Australians?

24 February 2006 | NZerFromHK

[NZerFromHK]

Does anyone have a summary of what proportions of Americans with British and Irish ancestry? I'm currently looking at the data for New Zealand and I note that in the 2001 Census, it was recorded 75% of all New Zealanders have majority British/Irish ancestry, and 5% have European ancestry from outside Britain and/or Ireland. Maori comprises 14.7% and Pacific Islanders 6.5%.

The definition of British/Irish ancestry that I use is: anyone who has 50% or more ancestral blood who came from what we call the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland today.

In addition, does anyone have a comparable set of figures for the cases of Canada and Australia as well?

Thanks for your help.

[Sam Gamgee]

Very beautiful. My wife and I intended to get to NZ but the airfare was so expensive at the time. Dunedin is a Scottish city, correct? I want to go an lay back on those rolling green hills and watch the sheep dogs do their work. For some reason when I read Narnia it gets me thinking of New Zealand. I heard it is expensive to eat however if one is not careful?

[Wallace T.]

I grew up in the suburbs of NYC and didn't meet one person of English ancestry as a kid.

What you describe illustrates the effects of birth control. In the Northeast, the Catholic immigrants and their second and third generation descendants had large families while the descendants of English and Dutch colonial settlers had small families. As a result, Italian Americans are the largest ethnic group in most of New Jersey and downstate New York while Irish Americans are the majority in most counties of southern New England. Of couse, Catholic birthrates declined after Vatican II.

[NZerFromHK]

Absolutely right. Dunedin is in fact the Gaelic name of Edinburgh. I found on Wikipedia about the principal (nominal) religious affiliation of New Zealanders by region:

Note that Presbyterians concentrate on the southern parts of the South Island (the island on the right on this map - Christchurch is just above the "tip" at the middle of the South Island's eastern coast, while Dunedin is at the slight tip far below), meaning that a majority of poeple living in southern South Island (Otago, Invergarcill) are Scottish while the rest of country seems to have majority English descents.

[NZerFromHK]

Speaking of practical tourist information, it really depends on a hit and miss manner. Air tickets will always be in the range of at least C$1,500-1,600 range - if I'm lucky I can wait for Auckland-LAX return ticket bargains that run at NZ$1,450 but normally you need NZ$1,900 from NZ. Add NZ$300 for return tickets between LA and Vancouver the "normal" cost is around NZ$2,100 - if you add $100 it is sufficient for a return ticket to London. (This explains curiously, a return ticket to US/Canadian East Coast from Auckland is paradoxically more expensive than a ticket to London despite Britain being farther than New York, Boston, or Toronto from NZ)

A cup of cappucino at a non-chain operated cafe costs about NZ$3.50 now, and if you want to try lamb for dinner at a reasonably posh restaurant at Auckland's Viaduct Harbour, it costs around NZ$26. A main course at the highest end restaurants will cost over $35. If you go to Wellington itr seems a little cheaper. Ethnic eateries cost less: a dish of beef rendang at a fashionable Malaysian restaurant costs NZ$16 and Chinese restaurants typically cost around $17 per dish. Typically, if the food is fresh it is very good but in most cases I think the way it is prepared is disappointing: most cooks can't compare with average-grade French chefs in terms of making a decent and delicious meal.

Cheap restaurants like Denny's do exist, and you can have a steak for about $15. Sounds quite reasonable when you consider a piece of steak already costs about $10.

[Sam Gamgee]

Those prices are perfectly on par with Canada - eating out.

Yeah - I wanted to get to New Zealand from Victoria for under CAD $1200.00. I guess I'm dreaming. I am thinking what we might do is a special ticket that let's you pick 3 stops - between Australis, New Zealand, Cook Islands, Brunei and Hong Kong. We would have to plan to spend a good couple months.

[Clemenza]

Depends on the region of the country. Historically, Anglos and the Irish looked down on Americans of Italian and Eastern European ancestry when they first came to this country, which is why the immigration exclusion acts were passed in the 1920s, which favored Irish and English immigrants over Poles, Italians, Greeks, etc. The strongest prejudice against southern and eastern European ethnics was in the northeast and the upper midwest, where such immigrants quickly became the majority of the local populations.

After three generations, however, most southern/eastern European Americans have become indistinguishable culturally from their Anglo and Irish counterparts, many having intermarried. While it is true that in the northeast, ethnicity still matters (more as a recreational thing than anything else), much of the country is composed of what I like to call "new America" ie recently settled communities in the southeast and west where most white Americans moved from somewhere else, and everyone shares the same rootless identity, regardless of where their ancestors come from. Examples would be Seattle, Houston, Atlanta, and the entire state of Florida.

These day, whatever prejudice there is is against recent immigrants (Latinos, Middle Easterners, etc.). However, most of these prejudices are among older people, cultural conservatives and the lower middle class. Latinos and Asians face much less discrimination than my ancestors faced in the early 20th century.

I would say that with the exception of Brazil, the U.S. is the least racist country on the planet.

[Wallace T.]

America is different from the Commonwealth countries in several respects. The proportion of non-British Isles descendants among white Americans is far higher than in Australia, New Zealand, and Anglophone Canada. Intermarriage between British and non-British descent whites is far more frequent. As I understand it, Australians of Mediterranean and Balkan background are disparaged as "wogs" and lumped with Middle Easterners as less than white. In America, people of Italian, Greek, Croatian, Basque, and similar descent are considered white. We have had a Greek-American Vice President (Spiro Agnew) and two current Supreme Court justices and numerous governors who are of Italian ancestry. Additionally, the Irish Catholics who emigrated to the Commonwealth countries tended to be more loyal to the British Crown, while those who came to America were more anti-British. America absorbed the bulk of the Potato Famine refugees, who were mostly poor tenant farmers. From the time of the 1798 rebellion to the early 20th Century, this country harbored many Irish nationalist refugees. Eamon de Valera, the foremost Irish nationalist, was born in New York to a Spanish father and an Irish mother.

[Fair Go]

I am not an expert on demographics but I do know that approximately a third of Australians have Irish ancestry and if memory serves me correctly, Roman Catholicism is the biggest religious demonation. Overall, 70% of Australians express some religious affiliation.

[the scotsman]

Just a little pointer....

Many(esp in North America)who claim 'irish' ancestry,by which they think they are of Catholic Irish ancestry,are in fact of Scots or 'Scots-Irish'/'Ulster-Scots' ancestry.

Recent studies have shown that between 50 and 58% of 'irish' Americans are in fact of Protestant faith,and therefore of Ulster-Scots ancestry.

Millions who wave a tricolor every March 17th bedecked in green in fact should be frankly waving a Red Hand Of Ulster flag and wearing orange...

[NZerFromHK]

Thanks for the information. The picture is radically different from here, and I found this from the New Zealand government sites about English, Scottish, and Irish immigrants and their descendants in New Zealand for comparisons:

http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/HistoryOfImmigration/en

http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/English/en

http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/Scots/en

http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/NewZealandPeoples/Irish/en

[NZerFromHK]

Thanks for the information and it largely confirms what I have read from books and witnessed personally. New Zealand inherits from the British way that people are quite socialist, but when it comes to race, they are very politically incorrect and and unashamedly open of their racism, at least when it comes to realizing they have to live with people speaking Dutch, drinking coffee, eating Chinese food.

[Oztrich Boy]

Additionally, the Irish Catholics who emigrated to the Commonwealth countries tended to be more loyal to the British Crown

Oh my aching sides! You do know how Australia's Irish Catholics "emigrated" here?

[Wallace T.]

My mistake, I forgot about Botany Bay, massive deportations to Van Diemen's Land, and all that.

[Wallace T.]

Many(esp in North America)who claim 'irish' ancestry,by which they think they are of Catholic Irish ancestry,are in fact of Scots or 'Scots-Irish'/'Ulster-Scots' ancestry.

You are correct, especially with regard to self-identified Irish in the South and the lower Midwest. The Irish Catholics settled in the northern tier of states, with the highest concentration in southern New England. In a large Southern city like Dallas that has received many migrants from the Upper Midwest and the Northeast, you may find a common Irish name like Kelly and Murphy. If the first name is Irish sounding, like Sean or Patrick, or that of a Catholic saint, like Bernard or Francis, chances are that he is a Catholic, and in most cases, a Northerner. If his first name sounds typically Southern or generically American, like Lee or Dwight, he is probably a Protestant and a native Southerner.

[SunkenCiv]

Here's some rambling thoughts I hope will be helpful.

About half of American white folks have German ancestry; in Michigan, the largest ethnic group (of those claiming an ethnic origin for, I think the 1980 census) was German, but it's higher yet, because a number of people of German ancestry stealthily changed to Dutch (or stopped talking about it altogether) in WWI or (sometimes) WWII. There's a town near here which prior to WWI was named Berlin, and the annual fair is still the Berlin Fair; but the people in the town renamed it to Marne, after the river where the German advance was (more or less) stopped.

British Isles ancestry is found throughout the country, however, it possible that it is predominant only in parts of the NE, in parts of the Old South, and in snowbird / retirement destinations (and that, only part of the year).

[Irish_Thatcherite]

The truth is there is a lot of British blood in the Irish, and a lot of Irish blood in the British.

[Cornpone]

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/demoprofile.html

They just call us "White" over here.

[Irish_Thatcherite]

Thanks for the link.

I guess we are of the 'Anglo-Celtic' world!!

[Cornpone]

"I guess we are of the 'Anglo-Celtic' world!!

Yep...just a bunch of barbarians we merry band...

[Irish_Thatcherite]

Yes, though it's strange how we are better at doing things than anyone else!!