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Personal qus: British/Irish ancestry among Americans, Canadians, and Australians?
24 February 2006 | NZerFromHK

Posted on 02/23/2006 2:44:29 PM PST by NZerFromHK

Does anyone have a summary of what proportions of Americans with British and Irish ancestry? I'm currently looking at the data for New Zealand and I note that in the 2001 Census, it was recorded 75% of all New Zealanders have majority British/Irish ancestry, and 5% have European ancestry from outside Britain and/or Ireland. Maori comprises 14.7% and Pacific Islanders 6.5%.

The definition of British/Irish ancestry that I use is: anyone who has 50% or more ancestral blood who came from what we call the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland today.

In addition, does anyone have a comparable set of figures for the cases of Canada and Australia as well?

Thanks for your help.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Society
KEYWORDS: ancestry; australia; britain; canada; demographics; england; greatbritain; ireland; newzealand; scotland; uk; wales
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To: NZerFromHK

Ayy...disregard my previous post.

I really should read threads before I post..arrrggghhhh.


21 posted on 02/23/2006 7:37:44 PM PST by Khurkris ("Hell, I was there"...Elmer Keith.)
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To: Khurkris
The Scots are interesting. I believe there is a breakdown between Scots and Scot-Irish. They contributed a great legacy to the US - the ideas of the Covenanters made their way into the US constitution.
22 posted on 02/23/2006 7:59:02 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Wallace T.
Wow, that's very interesting. That stat really separates Canada from the US. I wonder if the ratio was that high in the years leading up to the American Revolution? The melting pot was obviously a success as all Americans banded together to fight the Germans, despite the fact so many have a Germanic lineage.
23 posted on 02/23/2006 8:01:00 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: NZerFromHK; rmlew; Cacique
Americans by ancestry, 2000 census:

1. German 42,841,569 15.2%

2. Irish 30,524,799 10.8

3. African American1 24,903,412 8.8

4. English 24,509,692 8.7

5. American 20,188,305 7.2

6. Mexican 18,382,291 6.5

7. Italian 15,638,348 5.6

8. Polish 8,977,235 3.2

9. French 8,309,666 3.0

10. American Indian1 7,876,568 2.8

Americans of English ancestry have been a minority since the late 19th century. Even if you ad Irish and Scottish, they are still a minority.

I grew up in the suburbs of NYC and didn't meet one person of English ancestry as a kid.

24 posted on 02/23/2006 8:04:53 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Sam Gamgee; Khurkris; Clemenza

Following British (English) practice from the 19th century onwards, in New Zealand it is unusual to separate the constitutent peoples of the United Kingdom and count them separately. They are often collectively lumped as British and often even Irish are added into the pot and treated as the same.

In New Zealand's national consciousness it seems we have four major groups: British/Irish dexcent New Zealand Europeans (Pakeha), Maori, Pacific Islanders, other European descents, other ethnic groups (Chinese, Indians, etc).


25 posted on 02/23/2006 8:27:20 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Wallace T.; NZerFromHK
Actually, many of those specifying Canadian ancestry are from Quebec, of French background, who came to work in the textile mills in New England.

We are not as Anglo as you think.

26 posted on 02/23/2006 8:30:24 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza; Sam Gamgee

I remember getting a summer job at a well known power company here in Auckland as a part of my degree requirement. One of the co-interns was also from the same class and he has a German last name. We met one of the permanent staff that had the same German last name as him and it turns out that my friend's great-grandfather is brother (or cousin) of the gentleman's father. They said that there are so few New Zealanders whose ancesters came from Austria that each and every one could be traced to the same three or four migrant families.


27 posted on 02/23/2006 8:32:25 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Sam Gamgee
As of the 1790 census, in the immediate aftermath of the American Revolution, 8.6% of all Americans were of German ancestry. The center of this population was in eastern and central Pennsylvania, with lesser centers in western Maryland, the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, and the Hudson and Mohawk Valleys of New York. Many of these immigrants moved into the Midwest, following the same paths blazed by the less industrious but more belligerent Scotch-Irish. Interestingly, the German-American commanders in chief in World War I (Pershing) and World War II (Eisenhower) were descendants of colonial era German immigrants, who were raised in the rural Midwest (Missouri and Kansas, respectively) in largely non-German communities.

The political and economic turmoil of 19th Century Germany motivated mass migration to the United States. Additionally, the 19th Century immigration wave included large numbers of German Catholics, which had not been the case in colonial times. West of Chicago, the Catholic hierarchy, historically Irish from Chicago east, takes on a decidedly German flavor. Most of the German immigrants, whether Catholic, Lutheran, or Reformed, settled in the Upper Midwest. Almost one-half of Wisconsin residents have German roots. Except for Texas, this wave of German immigration had little effect on the South.

As for Canada, I thought significant numbers of Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians, and Slavs had migrated to the Prairie Provinces. Wasn't one of their Prime Ministers have the German or Dutch sounding name Diefenbaker?

28 posted on 02/23/2006 9:06:32 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.; Sam Gamgee

From what I seem to grasp of scant knowledge of Canadian history, the non-British/Irish origin "English" Canadian had (and has) never been able to get into positions of power. The ruling elites have always been British (not even Irish) on the side of English Canada, and of course complemented by French Canadians.

One of the reasons seem to be that Germans are scattered between Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatcheswan, and Alberta and within Ontario, they don't concentrate in Toronto but rather Windsor or Kitchener. This proved fatal because English Canadian politics begins and ends in Ontario and particularly Toronto. In Toronto the British descents have been in levers of powers and it was them who controlled the blue machines which delivered Conservative (capital C - they are paternalist High Tory types) governments from World War I right up to 1984.


29 posted on 02/23/2006 9:13:11 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Clemenza

"I grew up in the suburbs of NYC and didn't meet one person of English ancestry as a kid."

Have you seen this map?

http://www.missouriscenicrivers.com/ancestrymap.JPG


30 posted on 02/23/2006 9:19:29 PM PST by decal (Whoever said you can't fool all the people all the time has never visited DU...)
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To: Wallace T.

Also a curious question: how do British/Irish descents view otehr white European Americans? In New Zealand there were reports of prejudice from British/Irish towards non-British/Irish descent European New Zealanders well into the early 1990s. I have observed that many people unsonsciously classify British/Irish and non-British/Irish descents even now.


31 posted on 02/23/2006 9:20:27 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Sam Gamgee
The Scots-Irish are largely the descendants of Lowland Scots who migrated to Northern Ireland in the 16th and 17th Centuries under the Tudor and Stuart dynasties in an attempt to establish a Protestant presence in what had been the most strongly anti-English area of Ireland. There is some mixture with Highland Scots, northern English, "native" Irish, and a few French, Flemings, and Germans, but the Lowland Scots element is predominant.

The Lowland/Highland split is one between Germanic Anglians (including Anglicized Picts and Britons) and Celtic Gaels, whose remote forbears originated in Ireland, though with considerable Viking and Norman mixture. Despite their cultural and linguistic differences, both Highlanders and Lowlanders were predominantly Calvinist by the time of their migrations to America. Whether Lowlander, Highlander, or Scots-Irish, their concepts of liberty of conscience and the duties of rulers to be subject to law strongly impacted the formation of this republic.

32 posted on 02/23/2006 9:20:30 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
Thanks for the info. It really is very interesting.

Ashamed to say I didn't pay enough attention to Canadian history. Yes, many of the groups you mentioned moved into the prairie's, although the main group that did was the Ukrainians.

I live in Victoria, which is still a very English city, so I likely get a skewed idea of Canada's make up.
33 posted on 02/23/2006 9:24:29 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Wallace T.
Thanks for the info. It really is very interesting.

Ashamed to say I didn't pay enough attention to Canadian history. Yes, many of the groups you mentioned moved into the prairie's, although the main group that did was the Ukrainians.

I live in Victoria, which is still a very English city, so I likely get a skewed idea of Canada's make up.
34 posted on 02/23/2006 9:24:30 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: NZerFromHK

Diefenbaker is probably the exception. Not positive if he is German?

Things may now be changing in Canada. More power devolved to the provinces may help move Canada away from the regional conflict.


35 posted on 02/23/2006 9:26:12 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: decal

Wow. What a new perspective on America. Irish is a whopping 11%!


36 posted on 02/23/2006 9:29:10 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Sam Gamgee

I certainly do have some cautious hopes now - New Zealand is overwhelming British (chiefly English) and people just love the welfare state. Western Canada seems more diverse than British descents so there could be more clear-minded people.


37 posted on 02/23/2006 9:30:51 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Wallace T.
The Law is God - I think that was their motto (I could be wrong - maybe that was Cromwell?)

I didn't know that the majority of Highlanders were Calvinistic by that time.

I have a great admiration for the Scottish political tradition. I think the Scottish managed to do what the French failed to do in their respective Enlightenment contribution - justify their classical liberalism via their Christian faith. Perhaps that is because France drove its Calvinists out and ran an anti-clerical revolution?
38 posted on 02/23/2006 9:33:53 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Sam Gamgee
"I live in Victoria, which is still a very English city, so I likely get a skewed idea of Canada's make up."

You know, no matter how English Victoria is, nothing beats our own Christchurch in being the most English city outside the British Isles itself! LOL


39 posted on 02/23/2006 9:37:32 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: NZerFromHK
I could be generalizing here, but the English tradition seems to be an unwavering devotion to monarchy. They couldn't wait to get rid of Cromwell and put a tyrant back on the throne, only to toss him for a moderate in William. Still they just couldn't do without a King.

The Scots on the other hand seem to regard the monarchy with suspicion and definitely wanted to monarch to stay out of the affairs of the Church.

What little I know of Scots in Canada was they attempted a venture to make riches in Nova Scotia. The venture was a terrible failure but the Scots stayed behind.
40 posted on 02/23/2006 9:37:56 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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