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Refuting Fermi: No Evidence for Extraterrestrial Life?
National Institute for Discovery Science ^ | John B. Alexander, Ph.D

Posted on 01/02/2005 4:43:04 AM PST by SunkenCiv

The error is the a priori assumption that UFOs cannot exist therefore no evidence to the contrary will be considered, never mind accepted. Few scientists would allow such faulty logic to prevail in their own field of expertise. Yet, in the emotionally laden field of UFOs, scientists let Condon stand uncorrected and disregarding pertinent facts has become the accepted norm... There are over 3000 cases reported by pilots, some of which include interference with flight controls. On numerous occasions air traffic controllers and other radar operators have noted unexplained objects on their scopes. So too have several astronomers and other competent scientists reported their personal observations. Many military officials from several countries have confirmed multi-sensor observations of UFOs. The most senior air defense officers of Russia, Brazil, Belgium and recently a former Chief of Naval Operations in Chile all have stated that UFOs are real. These cases and comments are a miniscule fraction of the total body of evidence... Of course they do not constitute irrefutable proof. However, to state there is no evidence suggestive of intelligent extraterrestrial life simply belies the facts. Decades in duration and global in nature, there are too many hard sensor data-points and millions of eyewitnesses to ignore. We certainly can debate the significance of specific data and question whether or not it establishes a causal relationship between the observations and extraterrestrial life. However, it is only through ignorance or pomposity that one can say no evidence exists.

(Excerpt) Read more at nidsci.org ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science; Travel; UFO's
KEYWORDS: alien; callingartbell; enricofermi; fermi; fermiparadox; seti; space; ufo
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To: RightWhale

That's OK.


41 posted on 05/13/2005 12:29:22 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: KevinDavis

Kevin, I believe in Angels, also. They are, by definition, extraterrestrial. They exist in some where/when that we currently have no access to with our level of Physics understanding (and I believe we are limited in our future development of Physics theory by our current very simplistic definition of dimension Time). But we are accessible to them! ... much the way past events/phenomena are accessible to us, but to experience even one phenomenon in the actual present of that occurrence is beyond our sensory capabilities due to the temporal lag from phenomenon to experiential impact. Star light is a fair example: science can tell a whole lot about the status of the star that 'lost the photon radiation' when it lost it, though we cannot actually know the present status of that star. How is that possible? ... Well, the photon energy traveled across vast spatial expanse carrying energy that 'has a present temporal variable inherent in the photon package', IOW, the photon stream has energy, spatial and temporal variable expression inherent in the package, yet we treat dimension Time as if it is some non-variable background. Relativity hints that such is not the case, yet we haven't constructed a mathematics to include temporal variability such as 'past', 'present', and 'future', we only hold time as non-variable in expression yet integrate it in increments of 'present'. What would happen to our conceptualizations if we considered Space, for instance, as having three variable expressions, linear, planar, and volumetric, and Time as three variable expressions of past, present, and future? We might define photon or other subatomic packages as existing in a 'pregnant' linear/present or linear/past, or planar/present, or volumetric/past, or volumetric/future. These continua would be explorable if we devised a mathematics to express such continua and explore the interaction between these coexistent continua. Aren't string theory and brane theory seeking to do something along those lines, but with an 'antiquated' definition of dimension Time?


42 posted on 05/13/2005 12:42:58 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

Einstein invented the photon, and Goedel proved that by General Relativity there can be no such thing as time. If time travel exists, time does not. If time does not exist, causality is gone also. We'll need to do some more work on meaning and purpose, also.


43 posted on 05/13/2005 1:24:04 PM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: Tribune7; Quix

Carter reported a sighting....and I believe RR did also!


44 posted on 05/13/2005 1:59:23 PM PDT by Las Vegas Dave
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To: RightWhale

With the 'conventional' notion of dimension Time, someone might 'prove' through relativity that it doesn't fit the conventional conceptualization. However, the theory I'm describing is not the 'conventional' concept of Time because I'm describing it as a dimension having three variable expressions which combine with dimension Space of three variable expressions.


45 posted on 05/13/2005 6:21:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

That is a different kind of time. That is a formal kind of time, which might have nothing to do with reality. Make a distinction between formal time and perceptual time; formal time as used in engineering formulas would be illusory while perceptual time might be totally subjective.


46 posted on 05/14/2005 7:56:14 AM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: LibWhacker

Perhaps you could elucidate?


47 posted on 05/15/2005 8:10:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: Tribune7

;')


48 posted on 05/15/2005 8:24:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Well, if he had studied elementary logic, he'd have had enough practice doing proofs that he'd know what an assumption is and how it's used in an argument. It is clear he doesn't have a clue. Fermi's "paradox" does not assume that UFOs cannot exist. That is, perhaps, the conclusion, but not the starting point for Fermi.


49 posted on 05/15/2005 9:30:11 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: FormerACLUmember; LibWhacker
FormerACLUmember: The paradox can be summed up as follows: The commonly held belief that the universe has many technologically advanced civilizations combined with our observations that suggest otherwise, is paradoxical, suggesting that either our understanding or our observations are flawed or incomplete.
Well put. But the observations exist; they existed when Fermi made his famous (or infamous) bon mot. And they are rejected on a priori grounds.

Even though SETI has been a complete and utter failure -- of course, using one of the same criteria used to reject all UFO sightings, that of irreproducibility -- it isn't evidence of non-existence of technological alien civs.

In the book "Communication with Extraterrestial Intelligence" (Sagan editor -- CETI was the old acronym) Thomas J Gold ("Deep Life", "Power from the Earth") said "But I am not really willing to accept your premise, because it may well be that the means of communications they have are of a kind that we do not know how to receive, and that they would not have the means of communicating with sufficiently powerful radio or optical signals. That is something which, technologically, is too difficult for them but they would have some other means we would not recognize." (see also 210)

That knowledge is always incomplete is (or should be) an axiom.

The paradox doesn't exist.
Google

50 posted on 05/15/2005 9:54:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: RightWhale

I think you're onto something.


51 posted on 05/15/2005 9:57:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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Search For ET To Look Again At 150 Signals
Science Daily | 3-14(15)-03 | Editorial Staff
Posted on 03/14/2003 6:07:27 AM PST by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/864643/posts

Home PCS may prove point for Einstein
Columbus Dispatch | Feb 22, 2005 | Mike Laffcerty
Posted on 02/23/2005 6:31:04 PM PST by tang-soo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1349817/posts

Noah Johnson: Folding Proteins at Home
Apple Computer | 3/30/2004 | By Barbara Gibson
Posted on 03/30/2004 2:11:05 AM PST by Swordmaker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1107763/posts


52 posted on 05/15/2005 10:09:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Stephen Baxter, the engineer/scientist who wrote the Manifold series--that was essentially his idea.


53 posted on 05/16/2005 8:42:04 AM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: Swordmaker

Anyone on the Coast of Maine see the (ufo)?
Posted on 06/01/2005 9:02:31 PM PDT by maineman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1414870/posts


54 posted on 06/02/2005 9:15:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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a couple newish topics, related:

Ten Things You Should Do If You Encounter a UFO
The San Francisco Chronicle | June 26, 2005 | Michael Curta
Posted on 06/26/2005 3:05:58 PM PDT by quidnunc
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1431155/posts

UFO sighting in Exeter - again! - (Retired Navy officer reports his sighting in detail!)
SEACOAST ONLINE.COM | JULY 25, 2005 | Adam Dolge
Posted on 07/28/2005 8:25:37 AM PDT by CHARLITE
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1452398/posts


55 posted on 08/04/2005 11:29:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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How the search for ET turned into hard science
Ottawa Citizen | 03/25/06 | Jacob Berkowitz
Posted on 03/25/2006 11:25:38 PM EST by KevinDavis
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1603234/posts


56 posted on 03/25/2006 9:06:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Yes indeed, Civ updated his profile and links pages again, on Monday, March 6, 2006.)
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Extraterrestrial UFOs can travel freely violating ... laws of inertia and gravity in the earth
India Daily | 1/15/06 | India Daily Technology Team
Posted on 04/15/2006 8:49:48 PM EDT by NormsRevenge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1615787/posts


57 posted on 04/18/2006 9:34:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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How Lonely is Our Planet?
Tech Central Station | 11/12/2003 | Kenneth Silber
Posted on 11/12/2003 1:27:11 PM EST by farmfriend
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1020220/posts


58 posted on 05/16/2006 9:47:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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ET Visitors: Scientists See High Likelihood
Space.com | 14 January 2005 | Leonard David
Posted on 01/14/2005 5:19:11 PM EST by Las Vegas Dave
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1321053/posts


59 posted on 06/10/2006 5:55:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (All Moslems everywhere advocate murder, including mass murder, and they do it all the time.)
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Ben Bova: In science, 'never' is so far from the truth
Naples News | Sunday, March 25, 2007 | Ben Bova
Posted on 03/27/2007 11:15:39 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1807505/posts


60 posted on 03/27/2007 11:11:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 24, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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