Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The average college student today
Scriptorium Philosophia ^ | 25 Mar 2025 | Hilarius Bookbinder

Posted on 03/29/2025 5:10:50 AM PDT by Rummyfan

I’m Gen X. I was pretty young when I earned my PhD, so I’ve been a professor for a long time—over 30 years. If you’re not in academia, or it’s been awhile since you were in college, you might not know this: the students are not what they used to be. The problem with even talking about this topic at all is the knee-jerk response of, “yeah, just another old man complaining about the kids today, the same way everyone has since Gilgamesh. Shake your fist at the clouds, dude.”1 So yes, I’m ready to hear that. Go right ahead. Because people need to know.

First, some context. I teach at a regional public university in the US. Our students are average on just about any dimension you care to name—aspirations, intellect, socio-economic status, physical fitness. They wear hoodies and yoga pants and like Buffalo wings. They listen to Zach Bryan and Taylor Swift. That’s in no way a put-down: I firmly believe that the average citizen deserves a shot at a good education and even more importantly a shot at a good life. All I mean is that our students are representative; they’re neither the bottom of the academic barrel nor the cream off the top.

As with every college we get a range of students, and our best philosophy majors have gone on to earn PhDs or go to law school. We’re also an NCAA Division 2 school and I watched one of our graduates become an All-Pro lineman for the Saints. These are exceptions, and what I say here does not apply to every single student. But what I’m about to describe are the average students at Average State U.

(Excerpt) Read more at hilariusbookbinder.substack.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Miscellaneous; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: college; student
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-127 next last
To: Rummyfan

I understand where the professor is coming from but to be effective (like writing a book) one must consider the wants and needs of their audience/students. How many can and
will afford the time and money for each class - it all adds up only so many hours and dollars to dispose of - which
sorry to say likely means you have to spoon feed them like
a baby. Without any moral foundation there’s not much to
build upon.


81 posted on 03/29/2025 11:46:21 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels ( 1st Peter 4:8 "Above all, love each other deeply because love covers a multitude of sins." )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan

dohhh - always review before posting - below is better eh?

I understand where the professor is coming from but to be
effective (like writing a book) one must consider the wants
and needs of their audience/students. How many can and
will afford the time and money for each class - it all adds
up, only so many hours and dollars to dispose of - which
sorry to say likely means you have to spoon feed them like
a baby. Without any moral foundation there’s not much to
build upon.


82 posted on 03/29/2025 11:48:57 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels ( 1st Peter 4:8 "Above all, love each other deeply because love covers a multitude of sins." )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan

Can we expect the schools can fix the problem? The 5-year-olds that enter kindergarten are well behind their peers from 100 years ago. Five-year-olds are now three-year-olds. Eight grade students from 100 years ago are probably more well-rounded than college graduates today. They would be behind technically, but that is more easily taught than reading, writing, arithmetic, and reasoning.

We have a lot of spoiled, entitled children and young adults that are going to have to endure a lot of suffering that they will not understand and are not prepared for. May God have mercy on us all.


83 posted on 03/29/2025 11:51:03 AM PDT by alternatives?
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tell It Right

I was a commuter student and have a BS in computer science with a minor in math. I earned my degree at age thirty four.
I had a full time job was(and still am happily married), and was buying a house. So I had a full plate.
Since I had put off all the social foundation classes; Philosophy, Art, et al, by my universities rules I had to take those classes at a junior or senior level, no ART 101
it was ART 301.
It blew my instructors away!
I did have one class that I really clashed with a very liberal instructor. He started bitching about the Blue Angels who were in town and practicing for the upcoming,
show. He also ranted on about how bad the military was.
This was a “History of the new testament” class!
Costing me $1000! Tuition was $200 per credit hour at this private university.
I went to see him privately. Told him I was a Vietnam era VET with over 5 years of service and that the Blue Angels parked in front of my office on Boeing Field when they were in town.
This is a class on the history of the New Testament, not a place for political diatribes. Stop it or we will have a meeting with the University president.
Most professors aren’t used to students that stand up to their BS. I only earned a ‘B’ in that course. Normally I’m an ‘A’ student.
But he stuck to the class material after that meeting.


84 posted on 03/29/2025 12:18:54 PM PDT by rellic (No such thing as a moderate Moslem or Democrat )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan
"I’m teaching Existentialism this semester. "

To whom? Maybe that's the problem. This isn't for everyone. You have to already be "academic" to read that stuff. But I can tell you I'll learn anything from somebody who is a master at teaching. Some the descriptions of the well-meaning teacher shows that people don't read not for lack of ability per se, but because they just aren't interested. Learning is a social activity. Birds of a feather and all that. If there is such a thing as general education, it must be had before age 18 or else it's remedial.

85 posted on 03/29/2025 12:20:22 PM PDT by aspasia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
pretty much useless aside from Skinner

And Skinner is obsolete!

86 posted on 03/29/2025 12:21:18 PM PDT by aspasia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: rellic

And Grok is free.

OTH, learning is a pragmatic/social thing. Get a ticket to participate.


87 posted on 03/29/2025 12:22:40 PM PDT by aspasia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan
All this might sound like an angry rant. I’m not sure. I’m not angry, though, not at all. I’m just sad. One thing all faculty have to learn is that the students are not us. We can’t expect them all to burn with the sacred fire we have for our disciplines, to see philosophy, psychology, math, physics, sociology or economics as the divine light of reason in a world of shadow. Our job is to kindle that flame, and we’re trying to get that spark to catch, but it is getting harder and harder and we don’t know what to do.

That's his own exam question!

88 posted on 03/29/2025 12:29:16 PM PDT by aspasia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T.B. Yoits
There was an interesting passage in the biography John Adams, by David McCullough, where Adams writes of teaching (home-schooling!) his son John Quincy, who was seventeen (that would be in 1784):

If you were to examine him in English and French poetry, I know not where you would find anybody his superior... He has translated Virgil's Aeneid... the whole of Sallust and Tacitus' Agricola... a great part of Horace, some of Ovid, and some of Caesar's Commentaries... besides Tully's [Cicero's] Orations...

In Greek his progress has not been equal; yet has he studied morsels of Aristotle's Politics, in Plutarch's Lives, and Lucian's Dialogues, The Choice of Hercules in Xenophon, and lately he has gone through several books in Homer's Iliad.

In mathematics I hope he will pass muster. In the course of the last year... I have spent my evenings with him. We went with some accuracy through the geometry of the Preceptor, the eight books of Simpson's Euclid in Latin,.. We went through plane geometry... algebra, and the decimal fractions, arithmetical and geometrical proportions... I then attempted a sublime flight and endeavored to give him some idea of the differential method of calculations...[and] Sir Isaac Newton; but alas, it is thirty years since I thought of mathematics.

Letter from John Adams to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, former tutor to John Quincy Adams, pp. 324-325

Compare that curricula to what we teach children today. It's not just what Adams was teaching his son, it was also that Adams was reasonably fluent in the subject matter, too.

-PJ

89 posted on 03/29/2025 12:47:05 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too ( * LAAP = Left-wing Activist Agitprop Press (formerly known as the MSM))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan
I don't completely blame the students. Nowadays, getting a college degree is generally a ticket to the middle class life. The goal is to get a ticket. After a while, the student figures out, "Why should I bust my ass? I just need to plod through here, get the ticket, and be done."

I went to tech school out of high school. Learned what I needed to for my field, and got the heck out. One year. I was very engaged in school.

Years later, my employer would pay for college, so decided to go back to school to get my bachelors. In some respects, that was good, because life experience gave me some knowledge about stuff. Like a PO (purchase order) for a business. I would have had no concept of that as a 19 year old. Totally got it in my business classes as a 30 year old. And while I didn't need it, I really enjoyed my World Religions class. Very interesting, probably wouldn't have thought so at 18. But at times, and for some classes, I was, "I just need to pass this class with a C or higher (to get my company reimbursement). I didn't see the point of studying my ass off to get an A.

90 posted on 03/29/2025 12:49:49 PM PDT by Pappy Smear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan

When you read or are read to as a youth, your brain needs to picture the action and follow the story

When the pictures are already made for you (video) that part of your brain never develops.


91 posted on 03/29/2025 1:01:14 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: maro
No more than ten to fifteen percent of graduating high school students are capable of doing meaningful college work.

Well, at least that's a higher percentage than the number of people who call themselves “Christian” or “Jewish” who have actually read and somewhat understand their respective scriptures.

92 posted on 03/29/2025 3:02:17 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (“Did you ever meet a woke person that’s happy? There’s no such thing.” —Donald J. Trump)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: rbg81
Yes, you should fail them. To do otherwise, is to cheapen the value of the college degree.

The first semester I taught college, I tried to give "D" grades to two students, and was called on the carpet by the Dean, who insisted that I justify their grades, preferably raise them, which I refused to do. One was not doing any work or showing up to class, and the other was very talented but had skipped out of the dorm to live with an undesirable man who was quite obviously not in support of her need for study time.

Eventually, other professors flunked out the no-show. But I prevailed on giving the "D" to the talented but distracted student, who soon pulled her performance up. By senior year, she won the department prize, and her parents thanked me specifically at graduation for having given her that wake-up call in the first semester of her sophomore year.

Alas, this was decades ago. Today, the entire higher education racket is in deep decline.

93 posted on 03/29/2025 3:10:57 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (“Did you ever meet a woke person that’s happy? There’s no such thing.” —Donald J. Trump)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan

I taught public school for 17 years AFTER a 25+ year career in the software biz. During my teaching career I made a conscience effort to keep “an outsider’s” view.

I struggled to put into words a succinct summary of the problem(s) enumerated in the article.

Here is the closest I have come...

The education system will continue to fail until students are held accountable by someone (anyone) for their learning.

Parents have long abdicated this responsibility. As it now stands, students are allowed to not learn. At some point in time this became accepted behavior.


94 posted on 03/29/2025 4:30:31 PM PDT by goo goo g'joob (When honest people say what's true, calmly and without embarrassment, they become powerful)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla

You are correct. Except parents and grands think that their children are getting the same education that they received.


95 posted on 03/29/2025 5:46:55 PM PDT by Chickensoup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: A_perfect_lady

Exactly.

And people need to eork


96 posted on 03/29/2025 5:47:33 PM PDT by Chickensoup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Redmen4ever

Actually schooling needs to be cut back to 12 or 14.

Then work.

Not everyone is made for vock.

The trades I see do well are smart guys. Most of them are Essentially hands but the know their math geometry and physics .


97 posted on 03/29/2025 5:54:08 PM PDT by Chickensoup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: metmom

My homeschool kids have done remarkably well.

It became apparent to me early on that it wasn’t that they were particularly bright.

It was that they were classicaly well educated and taught how to apply their knowledge.

And they have.

They were furlongs ahead of their peers in that respect.

And


98 posted on 03/29/2025 6:01:09 PM PDT by Chickensoup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: vpintheak

My son is taking welding to get a certificate. He’s required to take a psychology class, plus one on equity.

I knew a gal who grew up speaking Spanish. Learned English when she was 10. The community college required her to take a second language. She pointed out she was fluent in 2. But they wouldn’t accept that, so she took Spanish. She said staying awake in class was tough!


99 posted on 03/29/2025 6:04:28 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

And people wonder why colleges are graduating idiots.

They’re run by them.


100 posted on 03/29/2025 6:09:06 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-127 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson