Posted on 11/30/2023 3:21:06 PM PST by Macho MAGA Man
The F-117 Nighthawk The F-117 is the world’s first operational stealth aircraft. The Nighthawk is a single-seat, twin-engine stealth attack aircraft. Only 64 were ever built and first flew in 1981. The US Air Force (USAF) “Retired” the aircraft in 2008.
Although officially retired, many F-117s remain airworthy and are used to support limited research and training missions based on overall cost effectiveness and their ability to offer unique capabilities.
Moreover, as we have already reported, the remaining F-117s conduct dissimilar air combat training (DACT) missions with other USAF air assets.
(Excerpt) Read more at theaviationgeekclub.com ...
On January 1, 1968, Hanoi announced that it had agreed to talks with the US if all bombing was stopped. Johnson extended the Christmas bombing pause. As the date for the Tet Offensive neared, the NVA gave top priority to the destruction of the Phou Pha Thi installation. If Lima Site 85 were eliminated, US air power would be seriously crippled. Jerry Daniels had rotated from Na Khang, “the Alamo,” to Phou Pha Thi when, on January 12, two** slow Soviet built An-2 biplanes surprised the mile-high site. Since their engines sounded like Air America aircraft, Hmong soldiers and their families moved about unsuspecting. Over the site, NVA crews dropped 120mm mortar shells into makeshift tubes in the planes’ floors. These shells armed themselves in the slipstream and detonated on impact.
Meanwhile the planes fired 57mm rockets from wing pods. As the biplanes bombed and rocketed the site, Daniels and the Hmong fired back at them with small arms. They peppered one plane on a low pass. It crashed into the nearby mountainside and burned. Daniels later insisted that he had brought down that first plane. Others claimed it as well. The plane continued its attack. An Air America Huey helicopter pilot, monitoring Site 85’s radio, heard its call for help and responded. As he approached, he saw the biplane attack. Unarmed except for an M-16*** automatic rifle carried by a crewman, the chopper pilot headed for the biplane as if they were flying a strike plane. As he pulled alongside, a crew member sprayed the biplane with the M-16, scoring a hit. It staggered for a few miles, then crashed into a ridge. A helicopter crew had scored a “kill” with an M-16!
** According to the CIA webpage commemorating the event, it was four An-2 biplanes but two were shot down.
*** Also according to the CIA page, it was an AK-47, and since they were CIA employees, I believe their account.
Somewhere on the internet there’s a picture of the engagement.
I was on Hon Tre Island which is just north of Cam Rahn Bay (CRB) for 15 months including all of 1968. When I got there we had US Army Homing All the Way Killer (HAWK) missiles to protect CRB from air attack. Eventually they realized how stupid and fired all of the missiles at Ryan Firebees (Drones). Final score, HAWKS 50% Firebees 50%.
Stupit. The P51 has a max speed of around 440 mph
The F117 630 mph .. That about the same as the Me163 rocket plane and over 100 slower then the Me 262 at 520
Neither the Me262 or Me 163 could not maneuver worth a s***, but they relied on their speed and the P51 had its hands full is trying to do anything with them unless it caught them either when they were out of fuel or trying to land....
A F117 would just use it speed advantage and run away
I spent 7 years at Holloman AFB working on ATC equipment. Night flying was awesome because our equipment downtime / normal work hours were in the day.
And how does that get you the W for the fight?
A win for an F-117 is to get bombs on target on time without getting shot. Running away from a P-51 would accomplish that.
At large: The F-4 Phantom debuted without an internal cannon, too. Eventually one was put aboard later models. But until that happened, a gun pod had to be mounted if the pilot needed a gun.
I agree also. The 117 was DEDICATED in its design to lessen its radar return for certain surveillance radar bands at the expense of its flight performance.
Not sure about the biplanes but I’d have matched up a Sandy against them. Douglas A-1 Skyraider. They were very effectively used then.
I spent 20 years, USING ATC equipment. My son went to advanced pilot training at Holloman.
That’s right.
so a highly maneuverable fighter plane, bristling with machine guns, can shred an unarmed bomber with limited maneuverability, and every one gets excited?
Apparently the F-117 could carry air-to-air missiles in the internal bomb bay like the F-22 and F-35 do.
https://theaviationist.com/2020/06/03/f-117s-had-an-air-to-air-capability-with-secondary-mission-to-shoot-down-soviet-awacs-former-stealth-pilot-says/
From the F-35:
The F-117 could carry a lot of different types of weapons. It would be easy enough to use a missile.
That’s amazing!! Short of jets, nothing can match that!
Its still a fighter verses a bomber. so apples to oranges comparison.
Wow!! I would think that must have been totally addicting to do!!
???
It's a aircraft vs aircraft. We even have air-to-air missiles on helicopters.
Neither did the F-4 Phantom when it was put into service.
WTF?
The (P|F)-51 Mustang was designed for the sole purpose of killing the enemy’s aircraft in flight.
The F-117 Nighthawk was designed for sneaking past the enemy’s RADAR systems, at night, and dropping guided ordnance onto his most important assets.
I think the author explains pretty well why this is unlikely, without calling the pilot's claim BS. The F-117 didn't have a radar, so could not use the radar guided missiles of that time, and opening the internal bay and somehow lowering the sidewinder enough to achieve IR lock before firing seems pretty sketchy. A Lock After Launch missile would be needed, which we didn't have yet.
After being called out, the pilot recanted his claim:
In the end, Donaldson clarified his statements on the topic and to discuss the matter in a bit more detail with The War Zone. In short, the F-117 never had the capability nor has any missile ever been fired, not even for testing. That’s perfectly understandable. Much less understandable is the reason why the pilot claimed it in the episode in first place and also confirmed it in another episode Q/A session.
Lockheed developed a radar that sat behind a sliding door where the aircraft would take "snapshots" instead of leaving the radar on and exposed. The door would quickly slide open and shut, giving away minimal signature while the image was snapped and then sent to the missile.
Single targets would be an easy adjustment for the missile. Picking one out of multiple targets could be adjusted by the program in the missile circuitry after it launched.
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