Posted on 04/13/2017 9:36:43 AM PDT by Impala64ssa
f there’s one thing I have learned over the years, it’s that there are always two sides to every story.
On April 9th, a very unfortunate incident played out on United Flight 3411, the video of which has since gone viral causing a mass social media uprising with an ‘off-with-their-heads’ mentality. I mean, across the board. Fire ’em all and let the gods sort it out later.
Look, I get it. When I first saw the video I was appalled too. To say that it was inflammatory would be putting it mildly. But it was also a situation that was escalated far beyond the boundaries of necessity.
If a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane, no matter how royally pissed off I am, I’m going to do it and then seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story.
Knowing what I know about airport security, I’m certainly not going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an airport flailing my arms and screaming like a banshee…because, you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal Homeland Security law.
But that’s just me. Obviously.
The moment I made that particular ill-advised choice, I would become an immediate and imminent threat to the aircraft’s security. That’s kind of a big deal. I mean, come on, I once actually had to remove my infant son’s socks because they mimicked little baby sneakers. These guys mean business.
I didn’t like it. I thought it was just plain stupid, honestly. But instead of pitching a massive fit, refusing to comply, and bolting through the TSA checkpoint like an out-of-control toddler, I did the big girl thing–sucked it up, removed the offensive socks, and went on with my happy life, sans being tackled and dragged through the airport in handcuffs by a bunch of big men with guns.
Because if you choose to take advantage of the services the airport provides, you play by their rules.
I know you’re all out there screaming that the ‘rules’ are unfair, but I am a pilot wife. I remember 9/11. Do you? I want my husband, the father of my children, to come home. I want you to get home. That law exists to protect my husband. And your wife. And your grandmother. And your child. And you. I, for one, am glad for the law.
I’m not here to dispute the facts of 3411 with you. I am not interested in getting into an argument of opinion with anyone. We’re all entitled to our own. I’m not arguing that what happened wasn’t completely terrible–it was, on multiple levels. But I am suggesting that the general public take another look at the situation, ask a few more questions, gather a few more facts, and then create a less hostile and more intellectually wrought opinion about what happened.
Because the media is giving you just enough information to keep you enraged–enough to keep their ratings up.
Things to consider:
1) “You can’t just kick a paying customer off the plane!” Psssst! It’s in the fine print. They can, indeed, do just that. And it’s not an airline specific rule, it’s a commercial aviation rule. Every ticket you purchase comes with a plethora of fine print–you know, the stuff we just click ‘next’ on without actually reading what we are agreeing to. Yeah, that. Well, it’s in there, and you checked the ‘I agree’ box when you purchased your ticket. You can read about it and oh-so-much-more here. Kind of makes you want to read all those tiny words on your next phone update before you click ‘I agree’, huh? You should. United did not break any law, and he agreed to the policy and possibility of involuntary bump when he bought his ticket. And so do you.
2) “Kicking a paying customer off an airplane!? I’m taking my business to Southwest!” Ummmm, okay. But just be sure you understand that every major airline, Southwest included, has a similar policy for involuntary bumping in a ‘must ride’ scenario. Don’t believe me? It’s called the contract of carriage. If you’re really bored, you can read Southwest’s here. Or Delta’s here. Believe me, it’s in there. This could have been any airline. In fact, it happens all the time. Most people just don’t wrestle the feds in the aisle.
3: “So what’s this ‘must ride’ nonsense anyway? They shouldn’t bump a paying customer for a free employee ride!” I’m afraid you’re going to have to take this up with the federal government, not United. And it’s actually pretty important to you as an airline traveler anyway. They were not ‘freeloading home’. That’s called non-rev and they have to wait in line behind your checkbook and often don’t make it home to their families if flights are booked (believe me, I know). No, this was a must fly, a positive space situation. In layman terms, it means that a crew must be flown to an airport to man a flight in order to avoid cancellation of said flight due to crew unavailability. This is a federal DOT regulation, not an airline one. The airlines are required to do so to avoid disruption of air traffic. In other words, if there are no willing volunteers and they need seats to get a crew somewhere to avoid disruption of aviation flow, they can, will, must by federal regulation bump people for the better good of the 1000’s. Why? Because one cancelled flight has a serious domino affect in the delicate, complicated world of connections and aviation law.
4: “It’s the airline’s fault for not planning better!” You obviously have no clue about the complexities of aviation travel and should do some research. There are about a million and one things that can cause a crew shortage including but not limited to weather, maintenance, weather, connecting fight delays, weather, FAA timeout regs, and did I mention weather? I wish I could control Mother Nature because I would be one filthy rich person. But I can’t. And neither can United. So they inconvenience one, or four, to keep hundreds on track. Do the math. And of course, if we were on the other end of this thing, we’d be tirading and blowing up the internet because United didn’t bump a passenger to make sure our flight didn’t get cancelled and left hundreds stranded. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. We’re a fickle crowd, we social media folks.
5: They shouldn’t have picked the minority Chinese doctor! It’s racist.” That’s just silly. Though federal regulation demands they involuntarily bump to prevent interruption of flights when necessary, each airline does have the leniency to determine how they choose the bumped passengers. They did not play spin the bottle or walk down the aisle looking for the Asian guy. Use your heads, people! There is a computerized algorithm that takes into account price of ticket, how long ago it was purchased, whether or not they can get the passenger to their destination in a timely manner, etc. It wasn’t an ‘Asian thing.’ Stop, people. Just stop.
6: “United should go under for assaulting that passenger! Fire the entire crew!” Read the facts. United neeeever touched the passenger. In fact, by all witness accounts, the United flight crew remained calm and pleasant throughout the entire event, never laying hands on the passenger. They followed protocol as required by law. Once law enforcement became involved (also as required by federal protocol), United stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is talking about) after running back into the secured area after being escorted out once. Once he did that, like it or not, they (law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty, but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger. There’s a reason for these laws–it’s called 9/11. We can’t have it both ways. But by all means, let’s berate and punish an entire flight crew–in fact thousands of pilots, FA’s, gate attendents, ground crew, etc.–because it makes us all feel a little better.
7: “You piece of **it!” I get that the passengers were upset, angry, maybe even confused. I get that you are too. After all, media is tossing you out chunks of bloody meat like you’re a pack of starving wolves. But I’m seriously disgusted that the poor must ride crew that had to take those seats after the unfortunate mess that unraveled were verbally abused and threatened. Can you imagine the very uncomfortable position they were in? Then they were demeaned, belittled, threatened. Along with many others all over the internet and airports today. They were and are men and women doing their jobs to feed their families. Just. Like. You. They didn’t have a choice. They didn’t ask for this. They didn’t assault anyone. They are not a corporation; they are individuals who need a job. They are my friends and maybe even my husband. There’s a very fine line between what you despise and becoming what you despise. Many of the comments and actions I have seen perpetrated against United employees cross it. Don’t become what you hate.
Like I said, I know you’re mad at United, but there’s much more to the story than hits the media fan.
I truly hope that this gives you something to chew on and gives you a smidgen more insight into the complexities of aviation. I’m not making excuses. I think there were bad decisions made on both sides. However, I am saying there are always two sides to every story. Make sure you consider them both.
Tailwinds.
***A correction to the previous article. Mr. Dao was indeed Vietmanese and not Chinese. That quote was verbatim from a comment off the internet. I apology profusely for the confusion.
Angelia (A Pilot Wife)
This woman is the 'type of sheep' that allows thugs and totalitarians of the world to grind their boots into humanities collective faces.
She's the reason South America is a hellhole. Her type props up every hellhole culture in the world. If she was in change at the founding of our country we'd be a British colony.
NO BIMBO - sometimes 'to stand up to thugs and let the chips fall where they may' IS the right answer... It's why there's no slavery in our country, why women (like this bimbo) have rights, why blacks can vote, and why police can't abuse citizens.
United did not break the law. The guy from Kentucky did. He chose to disobey a lawful order from a cop.
Sick of all this media drama.
Then add in the reality that people choose to become cops instead of accountants because being an accountant never offers the opportunity to physically impose your will on others. People who want to avoid confrontational situations don't become cops. Cops are more inclined toward welcoming opportunities to physically dominate anyone who questions their authority.
They could have offered a free round trip flight total voucher value maximum $1000.
While reading this article, I suddenly remembered an incident of an airliner (which?) damaging a guitar and a song which was the result of indifferent customer service.
Sure enough it was United. One of the comments in the link:
“2009: throw guitar
2017: throw human
2025: ? “
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
FR is all over the place on this one, from "Idiot got what he was asking for", to "United's HQ should be burned flat and its management should be drawn and quartered as a warning to other airline execs". I'm in the middle, maybe more on the side of the latter, given the facts that there was no need to escalate the situation like it was, the ease of avoiding the entire incident to begin with, and the general arrogance of United's management in their initial response. All the apologies afterwards were just spin control; the initial response is what they were *really* thinking.
All that being said, your point is an interesting one. "Insisting politely on your rights", certainly, is important. But everywhere? And every time? That's where it gets more sticky. At 2am on the side of the road when a cop pulls you over for a broken taillight? Maybe. Depends. How about the latest racial outrage from (fill-in-the-blank) urban area? "HE was a good boy! He wasn't doing nothing!" is insisting on his rights, even if it's 100% BS.
Regardless of the situation and who was right and wrong, there will be people lining up on both sides. Sad, but there it is.
Personally, I'd like to see the gov't get out of things entirely, and let the market settle the issue. Issues like the one being debated would drive companies out of business overnight, forcing them to put customer service as the top priority, always.
I think the author is missing the point. Yes, the airline had the right to do what they did. When given a choice between being right and avoiding a chaotic situation... they chose poorly. There were other options than having the man forcibly arrested.
It’s the Law of Greater Tonnage. The UA CEO might want to look into it.
What you can do is not what you should do.
If you have a mortgage you signed a document at closing that says the mortgage company may advance your note at anytime with 30-45 days notice. When have you ever heard of that happening?
United was in violation of the aviation laws by using the Chicago PD for a non security issue and likely went outside the boundaries of the FAA regs for overbooking.
United Airlines has lost $1 billion in stock value for acting in an unethical, insensitive and possibly illegal manner by assaulting a paying passenger and traumatizing the rest of the passengers. Now the market place and the courts will decide their fate. Oh and a Senate investigation. So my question to United is was it worth it?
Call a charter service or send the crew to car rental.
But I'll drive now because I'm retired. A friend and I drove across country 2,200 miles one-way in three days to attend our high school reunion. We shared the driving duties and split the gas and motel costs. And then we repeated it all over again to get back home. Old guys road trip, six days on the road.
We didn't have to go through security or check our bags. We didn't have to take our shoes off. No one rummaged through the contents of our suitcases. And I didn't get groped once, which may not have been the case if I'd have flown.
We had a blast because......we didn't have to fly.
She’s just wife-splainin’ what most of us already know and posted and discussed yesterday.
The bottom line here has nothing to do with airline rules. There are always rules and situations that come up when they are applied. This is about how the company responded and the choices they made.
And in such situations we each must live with the consequences of our actions. In UA’s case, it’s going to be a very expensive lesson. Maybe they change to avoid a “next time”, but if as she wants us to understand, their actions were legal, justified, and within the rules, why change them?
Ah, that's where I went wrong. I thought they had to play by our rules - the Constitution and the law. Silly me.
I miss the good old days when extra stews just sat on somebody’s lap.
And yes that was politically incorrect.
As I said on another thread, most of these are probably paid trolls. UAL is trying like hell for damage control in the manner of most leftists, and that is to send out trolls who sneer at anybody who complains. Snarky, sneering replies typical of trolls’ language. ‘What are you whining about you big baby’ type of replies. They do it on articles about TSA abuses as well, they are all over these threads like white on rice. Part of the damage control is having the above article posted here. She may or may not be a pilot’s wife. She may or may not be a she.
Hey, you need to check your #flightprivelage, peon. /s
“The thing they could have done is kept upping the price until someone took the deal.”
Methinks they don’t want to set the precedent of people stalling for more money. A LOT of people get bumped daily, and there are established caps on how much they’ll be offered. Yeah, $50,000 would have been a whole lot cheaper in this instance, but word gets around and lots of people start holding out for more; that turns in to million$ really fast.
Do tell, little darlin' - say that again - leniency to determine. Thank you. Jury, was that loud enough for you? Thank you. Dismissed.
The fact that some government officials are holding press conferences over this is just insane.
If the government realized how THEY treat customers, there would be endless press conferences.
This whole thing is BS. If you do not like how it went, don’t fly. And if I was on that flight and was the reason 230 other people did not get home, I would expect some ridicule.
I work with medical doctors every day. Every, single, day.
I interact with about 200+ of them every month. Trust me, very few of them need to RUSH home to patients.
Unless this guy is a world renowned specialist who jets from city to city curing Elephant Man disease or something as equally horrible...he has time. An extra few hours on the trip home is not going to ruin him or his patients.
When will people learn that being an a-hole is not civil disobedience. If the cops tell you to do something, do it. Then complain. Then suit. Explain to the people at the gate that you are a world renown surgeon saving babies. They will get you where you need to go.
Take the $800 and a hotel. For goodness sake, act like a grownup. Not an a-hole.
Yeah...I caught that too. The thing is, they were not. But she is right. If a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane...I’ll do it. Until then, I sit. Unless the Rent-a-Cops lay hands on me. Then it is gonna be a different type of encounter.
The broken nose, shattered sinuses, knocked out teeth bleeding Dr with a concussion and neck injury? yes. The clowns that beat him left him unattended. (first clue they weren’t leos). In shock, he ran back on the plane.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.