Posted on 01/22/2017 6:27:01 AM PST by marktwain
Making a reliable .22 magnum semi-auto has always been a challenge in the industry. Doing so with a pistol is even more difficult. Kel-Tec has had the most successful design with their PMR 30. The PMR 30 has been a success for several years now. Kel-Tec is running at top production capacity of a thousand a month out the door. A lot of people like the idea of a 30 shot, lightweight, .22 magnum pistol. Quite a few like the significant muzzle flash and blast.
Reports from industry insiders at the show are that most reliability problems with the PMR 30 are with magazines. That is not surprising. After ammunition, magazines are the most common source of problems with semi-auto pistols generally. Find a magazine or two that work with your PMR 30 and you are good to go.
The PMR 30 has a bigger sister, the CMR 30 carbine. It has been on the market a year. It is popular, but Kel-Tec is still working up to producing a thousand a month. My understanding is that they have not hit that production point yet. Update: Toby Obermeit, Chief Engineer at Kel-Tec, says they are producing about 200 a week, and hope to double that number. The CMR 30 uses the same magazines that the PMR 30 does.
Kel-Tec also holds a patent for a short, pistol sized 33 round straight magazine for .22 long rifle. .22 long rifle semi-auto design is well understood and simple compared to the .22 magnum. If the market slows down with a Trump administration, and less angst about legislation, we may see a 33 rd .22 LR offered by Kel-Tec.
I OWN two KelTec weapons: A PMR-30 and a KSG. I consider both of them novelty items, especially the PMR-30. I still have yet to be able to load 30 rounds easily into a PMR-30 magazine without bending a case on a round after having them sit loaded for over a year with 25 rounds inserted.
The KSG hit the market with so many after the fact add ons and tricks and after market products, etc. it’s hard to think this is a go-to weapon, frankly. You can even see how awkward it is to use in the John Wicks movie with Keanu Reeves.
In my opinion, they are nice engineering designs, but very lacking on follow through and reliability.
Kel-Tec has done well during the last eight years.
Did my share for them 5 of their products here.....
Why do they plan new products? They cannot supply people with the ones they have. Other than the small handguns, one of the gunshops I go to refuses to order from KelTec. They have a huge backlog, and don’t deliver (down the road) when they promise. The gunshop people said that they waited for a little over two years to get one of the guns they ordered. It was originally promised in 6 months.
Many say the Ruger LCP is a perfected Kel-Tec design.
I have heard quite a few say Kel-Tec innovates a design, then Ruger will make it reliable.
Maybe something like that will happen with the PMR 30 and KSB.
Why do they plan new products? They cannot supply people with the ones they have.
I suspect it has much to do with the desires and philosophy of the owner, George Lars Kelgren. I met him at the Shot Show, and he was gracious (had my picture taken with him), but he does not do interviews.
I expect so. I have several Rugers....every one as reliable as can be.
For the KSG, I think its match has already been made with the arrival of the DP-12. IMO, it is better. Even when it first came on scene, KSG Users Group posts were dismissive and completely uninformed since no one had actually used one. I finally gave up on the KSOG when all I saw in responses to legitimate faults were “fluff and buff” (on PLASTIC) and “KelTec Service will make it right.” [I’ve seen pictures of a Sub-2000 that broke at the folding hinge while shooting - plastic, but Keltec will make it right.]
Today, I think the DP-12 is better, but it is much more expensive. If I buy another KSG-like shotgun, it will be a DP-12.
Love or hate Kel-Tec, they have found a niche.
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Never a fan and would never buy one but I did have a small 380 given to me. It doesn’t fit the hand, considerable blowback to the web of the hand and it’s about as accurate as a thrown rock. But the damn thing goes bang every time, and slides into the front pocket with ease. For a stick it in their ribs get out of trouble pistol. I give it an 8.
There have been some accidents involving their pump shotguns where shooters have gotten their pump hand in front of the muzzle.
I would fit some sort of guard to prevent that before I would use one of their pump guns.
That’s just me. I think their double barrel is cool.
As for their 30 carbine model I’d like to try one. Most likely the grip will be long for me to comfortably get around to the trigger but I love that round in a pistol. I’ve got a couple of old model Ruger Blackhawks in 30 Carbine and both are extremely accurate especially with hand-loads. My favorite is an 85 grain running damn near 2000 fps from a 7 1/2 inch barrel, that combo has taken a bunch of yotes. If you really want to have fun shoot factory 110’s when it’s dark, they’ll light up the country side with the muzzle flash. Did I mention they are extremely loud?
The “incident” was with a KSG. I was VERY much concerned about this and even made at least two locked straps to keep it from happening, as well as looking at under-rails and pistol grips that were sturdy enough. IMO, the subject “accident” happened because of the goal to try the ‘fast pumping’ action.
yup, the LCP is what the P3AT should have been. I have both and the LCP was cheaper and is much superior
Something like that with a threaded barrel, suppressor (see Hearing Protection Act) and light would make a nice nightstand weapon for the recoil-sensitive. Theoretically, anyway.
Maybe it would help if someone would make it a single-stack, but of course it would only be 10-12 rounds in that case. Didn't Ruger make a 10-22 (rotary magazine) in .22 magnum for a short time? (Thinking improved carbine here, obviously.)
I'm inclined to see the point of those who say that kel-tec needs to get better control of what they already have than trying to expand and make more exotic-looking weapons of marginal quality.
Here is their patent on a 33 round .22 LR magazine that can fit in the grip of a pistol. Rimmed cartridges can work in large capacity magazines, but they need to be designed right.
The patent concept seems sound.
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/01/kel-tec-has-new-patent-for-33-round.html
Seems like making an autoloader anything in .22 magnum has some challenges associated with it that I don't really understand. I've heard about case head separation, etc. Has Savage found a solution to these problems, at least in a carbine/rifle in the A22? (Rhetorical question; time will tell.)
My problem is I don't necessarily have the budget to do my own field testing...
OTOH Ruger already makes the SR-22 with a threaded barrel, etc.
10 rounds of .22lr, or 30 rounds of .22wmr, but some question the reliability, is it worth the difference? Life is full of trade-offs and none more apparent than in one's choice of weapons, especially handguns.
.22 LR is so cheap and available compared to .22 magnum, that I would prefer the .22LR.
.22 LR production is finally satisfying demand. Prices will drop over the next year.
The magnum out of a pistol only gives marginally better performance than the .22LR.
The .22 LR is much easier to suppress, as well.
3 .22 LRs are equivalent to a 9mm. A thirty round magazine is equivalent to a 10 Rd 9mm magazine for power available.
This year I have only a few new firearms planned, but I'm watching the HPA and will plan accordingly.
I've always considered the SR-22 a nice new design from Ruger, who has never sold me a bad/marginal firearm. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to just put one on the list.
With, not without. :)
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