Posted on 11/23/2016 6:01:04 PM PST by Loud Mime
I am studying our Civil War; anybody have any recommendations for reading?
Why is there air?
It wasn't just made necessary, it was already accomplished by King George and the British Parliament.
I would put that in the category of "self-evident" truths.
Jefferson wrote: When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands” . . . and so forth.
You have made quite an issue of the term “necessary.” In your sober judgment, who determined it was necessary for the colonies to declare independence.
Yes, this is a trick question so be very careful how you answer.
“Why is there air?”
So you would have something to waste in addition to time.
Why is there time?
I've answered your question now several times, but since you don't like my answer, you pretend I didn't answer, feigning deafness you call out, "what... what... what did you say?"
But perhaps you will take our Founders' words directly from them?
The word "necessary" or "necessity" appears four times in their Declaration.
This one should give you a sense of their thinking:
"Necessity" in 1776 was a long train of abuses and usurpations.
No such abuses or usurpations existed in 1861, so Deep South Fire Eaters declared their secessions "at pleasure".
So you are saying the people seeking independence, through their declaration, determined it was necessary?
OK. Sure. It wouldn't make sense for the King of England to have to agree it was necessary for the breakaway states to have independence. Only a fool would argue that.
I can buy into that. As did the American patriots in the Second War for Independence.
Of course, that's what you wish that I would say and that our Founders had said.
But it's not, in both cases.
You claim, and 1861 secessionists claimed, that secession was strictly a matter of personal opinions and one group's opinions were just as valid as another's.
But that's not in the least what our Founders said.
They said necessity was not a matter of opinions, but rather of "a long train of abuses and usurpations".
Since no such train existed in 1860, Deep South Fire Eaters' declarations were "at pleasure", something no Founder ever supported.
If a tin-whistle is made of tin, what is a foghorn made of?
“Since no such train existed in 1860 . . .”
Who made this determination?
That is an interesting comment. May we see your data?
Read Secessionists' "reasons for secession."
You'll see there is no "train of abuses and usurpations".
What you'll find instead is: deep concern about what "Ape" Lincoln and his Black Republicans might do against slavery in the future.
No Founder supported such secession "at pleasure".
Every post of yours on this thread reflects your firm Democrat belief that your feeeeeeeeelings trump facts, and if you or anyone else feeeeeel like declaring secession, well, that's all that matters, right?
You make a claim.
I ask to see your evidence.
Rather that cite evidence, you ask a question.
You don't have any evidence, I conclude.
No Founder -- none -- ever claimed an unrestricted "right of secession" at pleasure.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Meaning, in simple terms, "At Pleasure."
As always, because you don't like my answer you pretend I didn't answer.
The data you claim to want is in every post of yours on this thread.
Why bother to pretend it's not there?
Nothing at all like the situation today.
This is a point I have constantly tried to make. Wealthy Elite Liberals living in Urban centers of power are constantly trying to force a new morality on the rest of us, whether we like it or not. They have taken defacto control of the system of governance and they use that control to advance their wealth and liberal agenda.
They set government policy that is calculated to continue enriching themselves and their allies, and the conditions necessary to the development of this extra-legal control occurred in the lead up to the Civil War. In fact, the Civil War appears to be the consequence of them flexing their new found power.
Then as now. The threat we face comes from the wealthy urban elite in the Washington / Boston power corridor. Their hands need to be pried off the various levers of power and that power needs to be restored back to the people of the States.
Total rubbish & nonsense.
If you read the entire declaration, you'll soon learn their disunion resulted from absolute necessity caused by an itemized "long train of abuses and usurpations".
There was nothing at pleasure about it.
He went all George III on them.
It is suggested that California needs to pay, you object by citing Ft. Sumter, et al. South Carolina offers to pay, and that is an exact analogous equivalent to California paying, but you reject it?
You demonstrate that you aren't interested in a fair and equitable solution, philosophical consistency or anything other than declaring your position as morally right whether it is or not.
But those of us who have argued with you before already know this.
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