Posted on 08/15/2015 4:45:38 AM PDT by don-o
The autopsy reports for the nine men killed in the Twin Peaks Massacre in Waco on May 17 are a thicket of words that don’t seem to answer many questions. The reports may be as important for what they don’t disprove as for what they do or don’t prove. They do not for example, disprove the notion that all, or at least most of the dead men were killed by police using M-16s and FN P90 machine guns.
Thirteen of sixteen entrance wounds were .25 inches in diameter or smaller.
FN P90s fire a round with a diameter of .224409 inches. M-16s fire slightly smaller rounds with diameters of 0.218898 inches. All but one of the victims had wounds fired from a downward trajectory. Six of the nine dead had head or neck wounds. None of the wounds contained gunshot residue which indicates that the shots were fired from at least three feet away and probably five feet or farther away. The absence of residue casts doubt on claims by prosecutors of “Bandidos executing Cossacks, and Cossacks executing Bandidos.” Two of the dead had large wounds consistent with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Ten of 16 wounds were in the back, indicating that the victims were running away when they died. Seven of the wounds were fired from right to left. Six were fired from left to right.
Nine millimeter bullets have a diameter of 0.35433 inches; forty caliber handguns fire a bullet that is four tenths of an inch in diameter and 357 magnums fire rounds that are about .357 inches in diameter.
Highly Deformed
Most of the recovered bullets were either highly deformed or fragmented which indicates they were fired by high velocity weapons and suggests those bullets were shaped like a swallow’s tail. Bullets fired from M-16s have a muzzle velocity of 3,110 feet per second. Bullets fired from FN P90s leave that weapon’s comparatively short barrel at 2,350 feet per second. Bullets generally leave the barrels of nine millimeter handguns at between 950 and 1,300 feet per second; 40 mm handguns generally have a muzzle velocity of between 1,000 and 1,200 feet per second; bullets leave a .357 magnum at about 1,500 feet per second or less; 38 Specials generally have a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second or less.
Most police ammunition in the United States is designed to penetrate a human body to a depth of 12 inches and for that reason that ammunition is usually copper jacketed. Most of the bullets that killed at the Twin Peaks were copper jacketed. Bullets fired from high velocity M-16s, have a tendency to tumble after impact. M-16 rounds tumble because the tail of the projectile is heavier than the nose. The kinetic energy contained in the round has to go somewhere so the bullet tumbles, deforms and usually stops before reaching a depth of 12 inches. Most of the wounds described in the autopsies are consistent with wounds inflicted by M-16s. Both M-16s and FN P90s fire swallow tail shaped bullets.
None of the autopsies include ballistics information. Notations by eight pathologists involved in the autopsies describe bullets and bullet fragments in very general and inconsistent terms. One hundred fifty-one firearms were seized at the crime scene. Bikers usually carry small caliber pistols that range from small revolvers and derringers up to .380 automatics. Ballistic tests on the weapons seized at the Twin Peaks are being conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. An informed source with knowledge of ATF procedures speculated that the tests would be completed in November.
These reports are so damning I am surprised they were released. One wound I had doubts about was Delgado’s head wound. Then I remembered his son said he had just walked around the corner and was shot. I suspect he may have been hit by a .223 that had struck the “corner” a glancing blow on the way in, deforming the bullet slightly but retaining enough velocity to do the damage it did. He apparently turned as he fell and was shot in the chest by an unmistakable .223 probably from the same shooter. I suspect this is more likely than “hit in the head with .12 ga slug.
Well, another piece of factual data that DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT that engaged in this Obama regime BATF planned “provocation operation” gone bad. The sole video recording that has been released so far caught the image of a person shot down (apparently in the back as he ran away). That video also caught law enforcement later coming to throw something (”throw down weapon”?) down to the ground next to the stationary fallen body. Can the Waco authorities and Obama regime DOJ drag this out until AFTER the 2016 election? They’ll try.
Well, I’m in before the flurry of leather lickers trying to deflect by posting irrelevant attacks on bikers in general.
marked for later ,,good assessment of the shooting, the .223 is measured on the lands and the 5.7x28 in the groves of the barrel ,they are the same bullet. I reload both.
EXTRACT:
“... this latest development can only further fuel conjecture that information is being withheld for reasons other than the potential to taint a jury pool. Among new concerns are why the ballistics tests, on what appears to be a local law enforcement matter, have been taken over by a federal agency. And why, after almost three months, ballistics testing has not yet been completed and reported — especially after ATF pledged this case was “being given top priority over other cases.” Watch this space.”
Highly Deformed = frangible bullet so as not to have over penetration
I don’t think one has to propose frangible ammo. .223 has so much energy it will come apart when it hits bone.
When I see a blatant error in specifics in the first few lines of an article, I tend to balk a bit. The 5.7 and 556 both have a bullet diameter of .224 nominal and a groove diameter of .218, the 5.7 is a 22 caliber as is the 556/223 Rem.
Okay, so on to the next issue. The velocity 556-(somewhat, if fired from a carbine 14.5 or 16 inch bbl, the MV of which would be more in the range of 2700-285, compared to the MV of a 20 inch bbl M16 A2/4 firing M855 ball (3150 fs). The carbine loses the ability to fragment ball bullets at about 90m, the rifle maintains that ability to about 200m. Of course, most LE would not be using mil ball ammo, but boutique LE ammo loaded with modern bonded dual metal ( gilding metal jacket, lead alloy core) or monometal gilding metal BTHPs of usually 55-77 grains. These bullets do not behave like ball FMJ, rather than penetrating a few inches, then yawing due to media change( the bullet is stabile in air, not flesh etc) then breaking or fragmenting into multiple parts, normally two core sections and fragments which penetrate to a few more inches-maybe 12-18” in gelatin, these LE or hunting bullets “mushroom” and stay oriented forward, destroying tissues via expansion. They likely would fragment if striking bone.
If fired from a “sniper” rifle, I expect the velocities to remain high-higher than from a 14.5/16 or 20 inch platform- common LE sniper rifles wear bbls from 20 to 26 inches in length, with each inch adding more velocity as powder burn/pressure efficiency increases. From high velocity platforms, expect more violent expansion/disruption of the bullet regardless of the construction.
If the rest of the article is correct, and wounds were found to be mainly small caliber/high velocity as expected from rifles of 22 caliber, then I very much doubt that bikers were wearing a bunch of M4 carbines/FnP90s and were wearing concealed stilts to inflict downward wound trajectories that magically disappeared after the bodies hit the floor and the police “secured” the scene. Not in this reality anyway.
When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not Zebras, unless you are in Africa......
Another slightly interesting finding. The dead were remarkably sober for bikers. One had marijuana on Toxicology and a bag of “leafy substance” in his pocket. One had Amphetamine which in a 40 year old I suspect was more likely Adderall than crystal.
” bullets were shaped like a swallow’s tail”
Is he talking about BTHP? Or trying to?
This case reminds me of an old book & movie. It gets curiouser and curiouser.
But wait.
Another coupe of names keep swirling in the back of my mind. David Koresh. Branch Davidians.
Still no one has stepped forward and taken responsibility for coming up with the plan for this cluster f**k. Just who was it that gave these killers their orders? Their Rules of Engagement? The assurance they would be protected and has so far made good on those assurances?
Just as we knew in advance that most of the dead were killed by LE (now it appears ALL were) we already know, at least in a general sense, the answers to all these questions. We may not know specifics but we have known all along what happened that day. In spite of disruptors like TG trying to blow smoke up our rear, we have known all along what happenned based on the reaction of the authorities. Even a cat doesn’t waste time covering up what is not crap.
Thanks to all for the knowledgeable opinions here (the knowledgeable kind are getting rare)
One thought that went through my mind is distrust of local police. I understand that most of my local police are good, but the stories stick and there are many.
Trust in local government has LONG BEEN A POSITION of conservatives. This is being destroyed.
My circle of trust is getting small................
Perhaps this author has never seen a swallow’s tail before. The swallow’s tail is split. I for one have never seen a bullet with a split base. A base with a cavity yes.
More and more this is looking like the plan was to make it appear as if there was a big shootout between bikers and police.
First we had an attempted mass murder in Texas by ISIS followers which was promptly blamed on “right wing hate speech” when they insulted mad mo by drawing cartoons of him.
Then we’re supposed to have a big shootout between the “right wing extremist” bikers and police.
Just by coincidence all of this takes place just as the dems kick off their anti gun and right wing hate speech is what leads to violence campaigns.
Yep, it’s all just a coincidence.
Didn’t you know, everything is just a coincidence.
It is possible that some of the shots were from Saturday Night Specials. Those generally don’t penetrate very well, however.
I also don't recall anybody saying the police fired anything other than 5.56. No mention at all regarding FN 5.7 weapons.
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