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To: Fledermaus

Professor Federalist would have us believe the framers created a Rube-Goldberg system loaded with Hail Mary passes and that five states can restore liberty.


99 posted on 09/26/2013 3:00:24 PM PDT by Jacquerie (An Article V amendment convention of the states is our only hope.)
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To: Jacquerie

The framers didn’t create a rube-goldberg method of taking back the gov’t. You have, with this idea of using an Art V for that purpose.

Our founders made it clear that there are more direct methods available to the states.

I was talking with a prominent tea party leader in Texas a while back. He scoffed at the people that suggested that Texas should secede. How can we do that, he said, when 37% of our state budget comes from federal dollars. Texas is dependent on the fedgov, just like every other state.

The problem is two-fold: TPTB in Washington have decided its easier and more profitable to hold nobody in check than to hold everybody in check and the money train leaves from Washington to the states, keeping them in check.

Do you really think that the states are going to willingly participate in an Art V convention that cuts off the money train? Some might. 38 of them? No, you won’t get your Art V.

It would be easier to convince a few state gov’t’s to wean off the gov’t teat and having done so, declare their sovereignty from the fedgov. As other states see the success of this “state laboratory” demonstrating what a free state is like, they can follow suit.

Until then, the states are self-shackled. We both agree that change has to come from the states. WHEN that happens, it fastest path to freedom is the states telling Washington where to get off. Until that happens, no state-led revival, art V or otherwise, is going to occur.

for the record, I have debated you honestly and openly. There is no reason to use derision as a method of debate.


102 posted on 09/26/2013 4:57:30 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: Jacquerie

The framers didn’t create a rube-goldberg method of taking back the gov’t. You have, with this idea of using an Art V for that purpose.

Our founders made it clear that there are more direct methods available to the states.

I was talking with a prominent tea party leader in Texas a while back. He scoffed at the people that suggested that Texas should secede. How can we do that, he said, when 37% of our state budget comes from federal dollars. Texas is dependent on the fedgov, just like every other state.

The problem is two-fold: TPTB in Washington have decided its easier and more profitable to hold nobody in check than to hold everybody in check and the money train leaves from Washington to the states, keeping them in check.

Do you really think that the states are going to willingly participate in an Art V convention that cuts off the money train? Some might. 38 of them? No, you won’t get your Art V.

It would be easier to convince a few state gov’t’s to wean off the gov’t teat and having done so, declare their sovereignty from the fedgov. As other states see the success of this “state laboratory” demonstrating what a free state is like, they can follow suit.

Until then, the states are self-shackled. We both agree that change has to come from the states. WHEN that happens, it fastest path to freedom is the states telling Washington where to get off. Until that happens, no state-led revival, art V or otherwise, is going to occur.

for the record, I have debated you honestly and openly. There is no reason to use derision as a method of debate.


103 posted on 09/26/2013 4:57:30 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies ]

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