Gilgamesh: The Warrior King

http://shadowsofhistory.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/gilgamesh-the-warrior-king/ ^

[truthfinder9]

Brian Godawa has been writing a fascinating fantasy series that takes place in the ancient Near East. It began with Noah Primeval which was rooted in the question, “What was going on in the world that was so horrible that mankind needed destroyed?” The series continued with Enoch Primordial (actually a prequel), which centered around the enigmatic Enoch. A man barely mentioned in the biblical accounts, but because he never died, and the other books attributed to him recount many a strange event, he has long been a person of high speculation.

Godawa now steps out from filling in between the lines of the biblical accounts with Gilgamesh Immortal.

[BenLurkin]

Enoch was a Godly man. His earthly existence ended but God granted that he not die, but rather be “translated” into His presence.

[ClearCase_guy]

Back then, the people were all schizophrenic and heard voices in their head. But eventually we got control and achieved consciousness. At least that's what this guy said back in the 1970s. He spent a fair amount of time examining Gilgamesh and the Homeric epics.

[Cicero]

Did he think that Homer must have been a nut case because he wrote such silly epics? Not to mention Virgil or Dante.

[STD]

What did mankind do! Spelling, punctuation and run on sentences. Kill them all, heretics!

[STD]

What did mankind do! Spelling, punctuation and run on sentences. Kill them all, heretics!

[DManA]

Carl Sagan said the same thing in “Broca’s Brain”. Did Carl rip him off?

[ClearCase_guy]

It continues to be a very controversial theory, but the thrust of it was that the two hemispheres of our brain were not well synchronized -- we had a bicameral brain. There was no real awareness, introspection, or consciousness. People did things much like animals do things -- and if a difficult or unexpected event suddenly occurred, part of our brain would "talk" to the other part of the brain and "give advice".

In Homer, this would be Athena telling Odysseus what he should do, or Aphrodite telling Paris to run away. It's the voice of a god that suddenly intervenes in human affairs.

Jaynes further says that at the time of the Bronze Age collapse (roughly 3000 years ago), the brain began to be more well-ordered and "the voices" stopped (for most of us). At that point, humans became aware that they were aware, they understood that they could think about thinking, and you could talk to yourself in a deliberative and constructive manner. The birth of consciousness.

Very controversial book, but loaded with interesting ideas.

[Pilsner]

Gilgamesh: The Warrior King

Not to be confused with Gil Galad, the Elven King.

[Lancey Howard]

Heh... This was a Jeopardy question (er, answer) on tonight’s show.
Is that why you posted this?
(Tonight’s reference to this king on Jeopardy was the first time I ever heard of him.)

[Cicero]

It’s also fairly common idea among literary historians that individual self-consciousness or subjectivity is a fairly late development. I don’t agree, but since I’m heading off for bed, I can’t explain why at the moment. :-)

[higgmeister]

where is Nimrod in this accounting?

[Tainan]

jeeez!...I actually have a copy of that book in my storage room.

[varmintman]

Jaynes bought into the evolutionay paradigm. His studies indicated that people living between he times of Exodus and of Alexander were using a part of the brain which is no longer used in such a way as to produce what he called "auditory hallucinations" and that entire societies were being controlled by such hallucinations at the time of the Trojan war. At every point at which you or I would have to make a decision, those people were being told what to do by inner voices which they called gods and goddesses. Another way to interpret the same findings is to entertain the notion that human language prior to the flood and the tower of Babel had been telepathic and that what was going on at the time of the Trojan war was a broken remnant of that former capability.

All of that had nothing to do with the flood itself of course, the flood was a real event, but a natural event. It takes a sorry opinion of God to imagine that he would wipe the entire solar system for sin only to have sin back in business a few decades later as if nothing had happened.

[RoosterRedux]

Actually, Jaynes didn't say people were schizophrenic but that they really did here voices of the gods (just as the Hebrew prophets heard the voice of God and as schizophrenics of today may hear voices).

Jaynes theory was that humans were not independent but were acting as agents of higher authorities. Perhaps those authorities were themselves agents of God or agents of the forces who had rebelled against God.

Having read Jaynes many times, I have the clear impression that idols did indeed speak to the non-dominant part of the bicameral brain...and may still do so in ways too subtle to hear.

[RoosterRedux]

It takes a sorry opinion of God to imagine that he would wipe the entire solar system for sin only to have sin back in business a few decades later as if nothing had happened.

There are many who believe God used the Flood to remove the nephilim from the earth (as the Book of Enoch and others so plainly explain).

I have never noticed that Jaynes bought into the theory of evolution. The origin of consciousness is only about the transformation you mention of moving from dependence on auditory perceptions to acting independently from such perceptions because they grew increasingly faint.

[fruser1]

My theory is that mankind was destroyed because they were vegetarians. Must’ve been similar to libs today, where most vegetarians exist now.

My basis for this is Genesis 1:29 and 9:3.

In 1:29, Adam and Eve are told:

“And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your food; 30 and to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon.”

Hence, people and animals are vegetarian.

However, after Noah gets off the Ark in 9:3, they are told:

“And everything that moves and lives shall be food for you: even as the green herbs have I delivered them all to you.”

Note the change in menu...

[SunkenCiv]

Sagan never had any original ideas; even his global warming / greenhouse gases fiction was merely amplified from earlier sources.

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks ClearCase_guy et al, there hasn't been a Jaynes discussion on FR in at least a few years (or, everyone kept it quiet so I wouldn't storm on in). Makes this topic pingworthy, it looked ludicrous otherwise. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[SunkenCiv]

IRAQ: Gilgamesh tomb believed found
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/902357/posts

Gilgamesh tomb believed found!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/902823/posts

Gilgamesh Tomb Believed Found
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1332158/posts