Posted on 06/11/2012 1:12:29 PM PDT by Black_Shark
Hey all,
Need some advice from those who have experience in this area: Is it worth taking out $41,000 in Direct Stafford Unsubsidized loans (Looking at ~ $45k after interest for 2 years) for a Master's of Science in Economics with a Master's Minor in Statistics at North Carolina State University?
Some background: I obtained my B.S. in Economics (Cum Laude) with an overall GPA of 3.364 and a major GPA of 3.6 in May 2012. Can't find a decent job so far and am currently retaking all of my calcs (I-III) that I took way back when in undergraduate in preparation for the advanced mathematics that my chosen Masters requires. I am doing this while actively looking for entry-level analyst jobs all over the USA.
If I obtain a job, I plan on taking it and starting my career. If this does not happen, Plan B is to stay in Graduate School and pray that the economy improves enough to allow me to capture that elusive first job.
Opinions? Advice? I recognize that I will need a Masters at some point in my life but is now the proper time to acquire it? Is it worth attending graduate school rather than applying for some entry level walmart job while looking for a job in my field? Please, keep this thread on the topic of advice and opinions that are helpful rather than bashing the Education industry.
Thanks all!
- Blackshark
You can teach in a Catholic school with a BA and a promise to finish a credential at some point. Stay out of the public schools. There are some very rigorous, very demanding, excellent Catholic high schools, and NO ONE can teach upper math. And none of the students understand it.
If you have tutored before and can teach it effectively, at least consider teaching long enough to save tuition so you don’t have to take out loans. The future generations needs YOU to teach them how to think and reason clearly. What better way than math? And think of all the young people you will touch with your gift.
Barack Obama is just DYING for you to go in debt with that loan. I would TRY to get an entry level job in a company you really like. Do ANYTHING. When you go to the interview, show them how much you know about them and how much you LOVE them and their products, services. If it’s real, if you really are passionate about them, they would be fools not to hire you at an entry level position. (I used to work as the head of human resources for an international company so I know this first hand.)
Going back for your masters(es, LOL) is a great idea, but there is NO NEED to do it this year. See how the job effort goes. If you do get a job, just work it and learn on your own on the job for a while. Talk to the higher ups next year and tell them you want to go for with them, and that you always wanted to get your master’s. See if they will assist you in slowly getting your degree at night.
Dont make any babies during these important years for your career.
Good luck! Follow your dream career.
Just a suggestion from a professor - go to the best school you can get in to. Your chances of finding a job (which shouldn’t be too bad with a grad degree in econ and stats, even in this economy) will be much better if you go to a highly rated school where the recruiters are knocking on your door.
They make knock at NC State, but higher status jobs (more interesting and with better organizations) will be available to you if you graduate from a top school. It is worth the effort and the money to go to the best school - for your purposes. Check out schools departmental reputations. Just because a school has a big name, doesn’t mean all of its departments are excellent.
Usually I suggest getting in and out as quickly as possible, but in this case, I will agree with a poster who suggested you spend a bit more time getting the degree, and less in financial aid. I think you should be able to get some TA work which will help with living money and usually pays your tuition. If you have to extend the degree for 1 year, that’s not too bad. Don’t do it forever, plus, schools usually have a dead line for completing the degree, so you can’t take too long.
Good luck.
Yes, I know. My father worked for Goldman Sachs, Maufacturer Hanover among others way back in the day! I am familiar with the lifestyle and the stress involved however it is something I enjoy doing so I would like to pursue it if I can.
I also love modeling financial markets! For my senior Thesis, I formulated an econometric model of the S&P 500 and used it to predict future movements of the market. Decently accurate, I am still working on it as a hobby because it is so much darn fun! I’m one of those weird guys who has a whiteboard filled with mathematical equations on one wall and a computer screen with a statistical program up on the other.
I am the very definition of a mathematical economics/financial math nerd!
Goals: Obtain a job in the data analysis/financial analysis industry. Work my way into a trading position (best case scenario) or into a forecasting/statistical modeling position.
I stand by what I said in my previous.
Find an older guy who is doing exactly what you want to do. Try and get hired by him even if it’s like an internship, low pay but he explains a lot to you and shares bit by bit some responsibilities with you so you learn from him. Ask him when would be the best time to go back and get that master’s. I’m guessing in about 2 years or so.
I agree which is why I chose NCSU! I have applied 2 times to Carolina (First in High School, second as a transfer in econ with a 3.o+ gpa and 3.0+ major gpa) and was refused admittance both times. Didn’t even bother with Grad because they only do PhD and not a terminal Masters.
NCSU has one of the best stats departments in the nation along with a decently ranked Econ program. It was the best, most economical choice for me once Carolina was out.
I am attempting to wrangle a TA or RA position but the department is reluctant to give them to Masters students. I am now going to each of my professors who wrote me recommendations and asking them personally if they would like an RA who they know very well and who is a hard worker and wouldn’t mind being a virtual slave! ;)
Indeed usually has a lot to offer, have you tried it?
If you can, talk to someone in the field. Don’t waste time talking to teachers or professors.
Its very easy to spend $$$$ on education with no return.
Even engineering is no longer a sure thing getting a MS and that used to be almost a slam dunk. Be carefull or you could find yourself up to your ears in dept.
Black_Shark/......mnehring is offering you very good advice.
No but I will now! Thank you.
Best advice so far.
If you can’t find a job, then create one.
Anyone with math skills can start a tutoring service and work as an employee. Anyone without math skills can start a tutoring service and hire someone else with math skills. Kids need math tutors. Adults need math tutors. Two years ago I was paying someone else $40 an hour to tutor my 7th grader in math.
Think outside the box and go for it. Take on some substitute teaching and volunteer work while youj are at it. Build a life. Then after a couple years of real life, decide to let somenone else “educate” you.
My first year after graduating liberal arts- I waited tables. Then moved 400 miles away and worked for a temp agency to pay for my room and food. Then joined the military and did incredible things and saw darn near the whole world. Got a masters degree paid for by Uncle Sam.
There are other federal agencies that will hire you or give you an internship or a life experience and then hire you. Think. Peace Corps, CIA/DIA, USAID, almost any federal agency. Or contractors that do projects for those agencies. Gtr your foot in the door. Don’t sit home and submit resumes on the computer. Go to DC, go meet and talk to graduate departments, hook up with one that gets its grad students into Govt agency internships that pay the tuition
A consultant with a B.S. in Econ? If I may ask, how would I go about marketing myself? I am completely ignorant in this capacity (never took any business classes).
I am confident in my ability to produce forecasts and models along with economic advice but would companies listen to a B.S.?
I got my MA right after finishing my undergrad degree. An old man gave me some advice about it: “Get it now, while you are still used to going to school, and before you get locked in paying bills and supporting a family.” I thought his advice made sense and I took it. As for the cost/benefit, I wouldn’t borrow the money to do it if I couldn’t justify it- not sure what you are trying to get into with an economics degree but you better look at what sort of money you are likely to make- a long and hard look.
Like Bigun’s son I am in staffing at a major defense firm. Your degree is something we would be very interested in if you do not mind making things that kill people.
On the other hand.......I very seriously doubt that the “Wall Street” trader route is the one to take. The restrictions placed on the brokerage houses when they became banks after taking the bailout money has changed the game considerably. If you were going to work for Goldman you would have been recruited by them already......like your cohorts up the road at the Duke MBA program.
I have a friend who is a recruiter for JP Morgan...I’d be glad to share your resume and seek some advice from him for you. Freepmail me.
Find an area you specialize and have experience in. For example, if you are good at insurance forecasting, focus on that.
Next, simply look at who else is doing it and how.
For example:
http://www.towerswatson.com/services/Insurance-Consulting?gclid=CNSx_6iLx7ACFUvDtgodeH3-Ww
Next, develop your business plan. Start to brainstorm everything you may need to start and operate your business:
Costs
Market Analysis
Legal Requirements (such as licensing, reporting, etc)
Potential Clients
Competitors
While you are doing that, read the following two books:
Free Agent Nation by Daniel Pink
The Brand You 50 by Tom Peters.
Read Free Agent Nation two more times. (actually, start reading that now to get inspired).
Once you have your business plan in place, your business licensed, web presence, marketing materials, etc, start small. Contact local or smaller companies that may be interested in your service but can’t afford the major firms that you compete with.
Build a reputation for quality and gather testimonials.
Look for parallel industry partners or others who want to do the same thing so you can expand your business into related fields. (I don’t know much about the insurance industry so you’ll need to fill in the blanks on this.)
Look for industry conferences, but instead of setting up a vendor booth, look for opportunities to present material. For example, if you created a new forecasting model, share it.
To tie on to the last one, try to find a way to make your service unique, new models, more efficient processes, etc.
Write and present on your topic as much as possible. Make it your hobby.
..and so on and so on and so on..
Once you become a free agent consultant, your career is a child, a hobby, and a paycheck. It is risky but it can be rewarding.
The good thing is you may be able to do this while holding down a 9 to 5 job until you build up your client base. (Substitute teach?)
I guess my point is that it might be better to spend the time you’d be in class continuing to look for a job.
Of course if inflation hits Jimmy Carter territory, you won the lottery when you pay it back in inflated dollars.
On the other hand, you might get your Masters and still not be able to get a job.
Thanks silverleaf.
Nice to see you.
I would tell you to follow mnehring’s advice it is really good advice and if I were not 49 myself I would take it and run with it....do it now while you have no debt, no house payment, no kids, no wife......jump now or regret it forever....like me.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.