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How Seawater Can Power the World (Nuclear fusion)
The New York Times ^ | July 10, 2011 | Stewart C. Prager

Posted on 07/11/2011 10:29:37 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

DEBATE about America’s energy supply is heating up: gas prices are rising, ethanol is under attack and nuclear power continues to struggle in the shadow of the Fukushima disaster in Japan.

But an abundant, safe and clean energy source once thought to be the stuff of science fiction is closer than many realize: nuclear fusion. Making it a reality, however, will take significant investment from the government at a time when spending on scientific research is under threat.

Harnessing nuclear fusion, the energy that powers the sun and the stars, has been a goal of physicists worldwide since the 1950s. It is essentially inexhaustible and it can be created using hydrogen isotopes — chemical cousins of hydrogen, like deuterium — that can readily be extracted from seawater.

Fusion energy is created by fusing two atomic nuclei, in the process converting mass to energy, which appears as heat. The heat, as in conventional nuclear fission reactors, turns water into steam, which drives turbines to generate electricity, or is used to produce fuels for transportation or other uses.

Fusion energy generates zero greenhouse gases. It offers no chance of a catastrophic accident. It can be available to all nations, relying only on the Earth’s oceans. When commercialized, it will transform the world’s energy supply.

There’s a catch. The development of fusion energy is one of the most difficult science and engineering challenges ever undertaken. Among other challenges, it requires production and confinement of a hot gas — a plasma — with a temperature around 100 million degrees Celsius....

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: china; economy; energy; fusion
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1 posted on 07/11/2011 10:29:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This has been 25 years away for the last 50 years.

Seriously, I’ve always wondered if there wasn’t some engineering solution to confinement that just hasn’t occurred to anybody yet, and will be incredibly obvious once invented.

Farnsworth’s designs seem tantalizingly close, and people have tried to prove for years that they CAN’T be made to work efficiently, and yet making them work with net positive energy still can’t be done.


2 posted on 07/11/2011 10:45:57 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As my father once said, God Rest His Soul, “if Bull Sh^t was energy, Washington, DC would light up the world.”


3 posted on 07/11/2011 10:49:45 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Making it a reality, however, will take significant investment from the government at a time when spending on scientific research is under threat.

More unicorns and pixie dust energy ideas that can only be accomplished through Big Gov't spending. These expensive energy ideas are really paying off in Spain, with 20% unemployment and a maxed out credit card.

4 posted on 07/11/2011 10:50:04 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The absolute stupidest thing one can believe is that we’ll never get fusion to work as a practical souce of energy.

The second stupidest thing one can believe is what comes out of a scientist’s mouth when they’re looking for new (or protecting existing) grant money.


5 posted on 07/11/2011 10:53:33 PM PDT by Yossarian ("All the charm of Nixon. All the competency of Carter." - SF Chronicle comment post on Obama)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bflr


6 posted on 07/11/2011 10:54:14 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I went to the Slimes site and read the entire article just to confirm. Sure enough, there is no explanation for this statement:

“Making it a reality, however, will take significant investment from the government...”

The government didn’t fund Henry Ford or the Wright Brothers, but somehow Fusion will never happen without government investment ? One distinguishing mark of a liberal is their unquestioning belief that nothing can be accomplished without government funding.


7 posted on 07/11/2011 11:04:23 PM PDT by Kellis91789 (There's a reason the mascot of the Democratic Party is a jackass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All

You want unlimited energy? It’s called the ionosphere. Tesla proved it. When all the oil and natural gas is depleted we’ll magically find it. (Technically, I don’t think we’ll make it that long).


8 posted on 07/11/2011 11:06:06 PM PDT by TwoSwords (The Lord is a man of war, Exodus 15:3)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"...it requires production and confinement of a hot gas — a plasma — with a temperature around 100 million degrees Celsius...."

There just always has to be a catch, doesn't there? ;-)

9 posted on 07/11/2011 11:13:06 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
There’s a catch...

There are a lot of catches.

Fusion is turning out to be a complicated, finicky, expensive, radioactive, Rube Goldberg type of solution.

the technology simply is not there. While I think that there is merit in research, blowing the bank on it is a fool's errand. It may lead to better understanding, but I cannot see it powering an illegal incandescent light bulb ever.

10 posted on 07/11/2011 11:26:25 PM PDT by Mr. Quarterpanel (I am not an actor, but I play one on TV)
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To: TwoSwords

You want unlimited energy? It’s called the ionosphere. Tesla proved it. When all the oil and natural gas is depleted we’ll magically find it
  Always gotta love the Tesla conspiracy theorists, especially those that still believe in wireless electric power distribution. You're in the HAARP conspiracy theory territory once you go there . . .
11 posted on 07/11/2011 11:34:27 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Where does lightning come from you effing idiot?


12 posted on 07/11/2011 11:37:45 PM PDT by TwoSwords (The Lord is a man of war, Exodus 15:3)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nice pitch for funding by the “scientist” in charge of the Plasma Physics Laboratory at Princeton U. How come he didn’t mention that to use “seawater” as fuel, you have to use very expensive electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen? And oh yeah, plasma is not gas since at energies that high, the subatomic particles are separated from each other to a large degree. And the kind of “emissions” they’re talking about are of course “carbon” . . . fusion does indeed emit dangerous high-energy EM waves that need to be contained.


13 posted on 07/11/2011 11:41:51 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
At a CalTech seminar, the third time I saw Edward Teller -- one of a very few men to actually ever have designed a fusion reactor, albeit a very short-lived, nasty one -- he was asked the question: "When will a self-sustaining fusion reactor happen?" He looked around the room and said, "It may happen within the lifetimes of a few of the young men in this room. But I doubt it."

I was a twenty six year-old graduate student. That was thirty years ago...

14 posted on 07/11/2011 11:48:16 PM PDT by FredZarguna (... and I aint gettin' any younger.)
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To: TwoSwords

Where does lightning come from you effing idiot?
LOL, that's an even better one. Attak de heretick! him kwestion de guru! How come all lightning forms between cloud and ground, and this being but a few miles above the planet's surface while the D-layer of the ionosphere is 37 miles above? (Airliners fly an average of 6½ miles above when cruising.) Of course, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've got a point that makes sense . . . kan I go to ur universitee wer u got ur degreey in fizziks?
15 posted on 07/12/2011 12:04:18 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I’ll be fair, lord knows you need it. All lightning is cloud cover or below? All lightning needs cloud cover? If not where does it come from? I don’t need a physics degree that isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. I just listen to people that are smarter than me and you.


16 posted on 07/12/2011 12:19:07 AM PDT by TwoSwords (The Lord is a man of war, Exodus 15:3)
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To: TwoSwords

I’ll be fair, lord knows you need it. All lightning is cloud cover or below? All lightning needs cloud cover? If not where does it come from? I don’t need a physics degree that isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. I just listen to people that are smarter than me and you
Alas. A product of liberal society . . . how is it you came here?

You've seen lightning out of a clear sky? If you did, you're hallucinating. Yes, all lightning occurs during storm cloud cover, i.e. when not associated with volcanic eruptions. That's why planes are able to fly safely above thunderstorms without being struck by lightning. Maybe one day you will experience this; I've flown on several flights where I've seen lightning bursts several miles below me.

I'd say you need a degree in something first, because you aren't listening to people that are "smarter than me or you". If the best scientific minds are still debating just how lightning forms, your gurus won't have the answer, i.e. if they're real.
17 posted on 07/12/2011 12:31:47 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

So lightning out of a clear blue sky never happens, just a wives tale. And the best minds are still trying to figure lightning out. You’ve convinced me, guru.


18 posted on 07/12/2011 12:38:13 AM PDT by TwoSwords (The Lord is a man of war, Exodus 15:3)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Comes from seawater? Forget it, this libs will never accept it. “No fusion” concerts will break out and Al Gore will point out how dangerously low the sea level is dropping by using tides as an example like he uses photos of winter compared to summer to point out global warm.....oh wait, excuse me....climate change.


19 posted on 07/12/2011 1:11:53 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Mark Halperin - Learned the hard way what happens when you speak the truth on PMSNBC.)
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To: TwoSwords

So lightning out of a clear blue sky never happens, just a wives tale
"Bolts from the blue" are cloud-to-ground lightning strikes that come from nearby thunderstorms. No storm, no lightning. Maximum distance away is generally 25 miles. Anyone could have looked that up on the information superhighway.

And the best minds are still trying to figure lightning out
Indeed they are. Causes are still as mysterious as that of gravity.
20 posted on 07/12/2011 1:12:43 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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