DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[butterdezillion]

http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/red-flags-in-hawaii-2/

I can’t really say what’s the best of the best. What I’ve got is a bunch of small dots of ink. Any one by itself can be overlooked, but when you put them all together it makes a definite image. The points I’ve made are the more significant bits from a large pile of other similar stuff.
In fact, I’ve got more that I could and should post.

One of the biggies is something you poo-poohed as a SNAFU. But the one instance of the DOH and OIP both confirming that Obama’s BC is amended is not the only one; I should probably post the other. The fact that both of those requests were appealed to the OIP and the OIP, who has the duty to determine whether a request is given a proper response, agreed that it was a denial of documents in existence rules out the SNAFU explanation.

The OIP letter that was written by OIP Director Paul Tsukiyama hasn’t been posted yet but is especially compelling because he is the person who had just written the UIPA booklet a month or two earlier - describing how the FIRST STEP in answering a UIPA request is to see whether the document even exists; if it doesn’t the agency is to check the box saying the record doesn’t exist and that’s the end of it.

The guy who wrote that said that the DOH had given a proper response when they denied access to Obama’s supplementary documents to support the claims on the birth certificate. Supplementary claims are only needed to amend a BC or if the BC is made on the basis of claims for an unattended birth.

The fact that the DOH illegally hid their Administrative Rules for over a year even though they were being pestered mercilessly to post them as required by law tells me that this is a deliberate course they’ve taken.

There’s just way too much to narrow down. But those 2 points speak volumes.

[butterdezillion]

Sounds like we’ve got a start in Arizona. Made it past the first hurdle. Now the lawyers will go after it to try to screw us all. Sigh.

Do what you can. We’ll all hope and pray for the best.

[Red Steel]

Plus the woman has a potentially highly prejudicial personal relationship to Obama.

I was doing a little research on West a day ago and came across that her husband gave donation(s) to the abortion group Planned Parenthood. As it goes to their mindsets.

Obama "I don't want them punished with a baby!"

[parsifal]

I thought the same thing about the bound ledger. Also Nerks put up a picture last night of Dr. West sitting at his desk wearing a doctor coat and the blurb says, Dr. West shortly before he retired. As I pointed out, he looks a lot older than 46.

But yes, the whole issue is just collateral fluffery. It has no relevance to any issue. The COLB is pretty good evidence of birth. But the Birthers, and I am not knocking them here, just splat out the same old stuff over and over and there is little rhyme or reason to most of the material.

Its like somebody misprinted a name on the cover of the 1961 Honolulu Phone Book, it would turn into a conspiracy where Hawaii was hiding the real phone book and real phone numbers. So, whenever I can slap down any of these phony pieces of “evidence” I try to do so. I keep waiting for somebody to spot the big inconsistency in the Nordyke Birth Certificate, but thankfully no one has yet or we would have 200 more pages of Birtherisms to go through.

Now as to the hearsay. If a hearing took place in administrative setting, rules of evidence often don’t apply. In hearsay, there are exceptions. The doctors dead and he can’t testify. He was excited when he said it.

Now there would be no reason to call this lady to the stand for anything. Nothing she could testify to that can’t be proven in much better ways. Courts usually stop grossly duplicative evidence from coming in. There’s a word for it and it eludes me at present. Comes from the Latin for “flogging dead horses”.

parsy, who is having a senior moment, and I ain’t even a senior yet, I don’t think....How old am I?....

[EnderWiggins]

"The FFC, USCON, the State Dept and the FRE cover the "chain of evidence" of a COLB given BY partisan hacks TO partisan hack to verify the Eligibility of the POTUS??!"

Of course. You didn't know that?

"Do any of those references say anything about "reliable evidence"?"

Sure they do.

Let's start with the US State Department Regulations, shall we? Specifically 7 FAM 1119 PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH IN THE UNITED STATES

In this regulation, we discover that:

a. To establish a claim to U.S. citizenship by birth in the United States:

A person born in the United States in a place where official records of birth were kept at the time of his birth shall submit with the application for a passport a birth certificate under the seal of the official custodian of records. [22 CFR 51.43.]

b. The birth certificate must:

(1) Show the applicant’s full name, and date and place of birth;
(2) Have a filing date within 1 year of the birth; and
(3) Bear the signature of the official custodian of birth records and the raised, impressed, or multicolored seal of the issuing office.

BP's First Epiphany: Barack Obama's COLB perfectly meets the State Department's requirements for proof of citizenship by birth. In actuality, since it also shows who his parents were, it is more than what is required as proof. There is no prohibition against the document being submitted by "partisan flack." It is proof regardless of who submits it.

Next, lets talk about the US Constitution and the "Full Faith and Credit" clause. It's Article IV, Section 1 and it reads:

"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."

BP's Second Epiphany: No state or court can reject the COLB as proof of Obama's citizenship, since Hawaii's "full faith and credit" is guaranteed by the Constitution. The State of Hawaii says, right there on the certificate, that it that "This copy serves as prima face evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding." Not "This copy except when provided by partisan hacks..." The copy itself, no matter who hands it to the court.

Finally, let's see what the Federal Rules of Evidence have to say about it. The FRE have a whole rule (Rule 902) that covers what documents are self authenticating (even when provided by partisan flacks) Here is the rule along with its very first section:

Rule 902. Self-authentication

Extrinsic evidence of authenticity as a condition precedent to admissibility is not required with respect to the following:

(1) Domestic public documents under seal. A document bearing a seal purporting to be that of the United States, or of any State, district, Commonwealth, territory, or insular possession thereof, or the Panama Canal Zone, or the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, or of a political subdivision, department, officer, or agency thereof, and a signature purporting to be an attestation or execution.

BP's Third Epiphany: Not only is the COLB reliable, it is so reliable that it requires absolutely no "extrinsic evidence of authenticity" whatsoever. The document itself, even if it were to have fallen from a clear blue sky or have been hand delivered by a partisan flack is completely self authenticating.

So... where does this leave you? After all, you don't care about any of these things, because you personally don't trust Obama's partisan flacks. Unfortunately, the courts do care. Law enforcement agencies care. The US Constitution cares. The COLB is in and of itself absolute legal proof that Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961... and unless you have something to contradict it, it is considered absolutely, completely, unassailable reliable.

So... what have you got to contradict it?

[EnderWiggins]

And yet you keep coming back for more.

[little jeremiah]

I agree - mere ignorance can be excused, but not bad attitudes, including rudeness and arrogance.

If someone is ignorant but doesn’t have the above attitudes, they’ll educate themselves.

[STARWISE]

When people are dishonest, no amount of laws will change the situation. While such a law (actually I wouldn’t say specifically this document or that, just prove with any and all relevant documents) would certainly be “nice”, the fact that in order to be President he or she must fulfill certain eligibility requirements is already accepted, and still the usurper is sitting in the White House busily destroying our country, means that one little law is not the solution.

~~~~~~~

RIGHT!

The Founding Fathers intended and felt that only the honorable would rise to candidate for and the office of POTUS.

In hindsight, we see their hopes and intentions didn't and couldn't foresee every situation.

When .. in the tremendously brave, valiant and resplendent history of this glorious and unique land have the PEOPLE ... the PEOPLE who are to be SERVED by the government and NOT the reverse .. had to deal with a candidate and potus with such a fuzzy, frequently foreign, obscured, sealed and officially unproven origin and past who PROVOKED millions of the PEOPLE to such a level of UNNERVING DOUBT AND DISTRUST, thereby justly sending them chasing down all the possible facts in defense of our country's laws?

This complex and extremely irksome saga of unparallelled discomfort and distrust in our government, even aside from his extreme and radical leftist policies on most all fronts that are seriously hurting this country, is the DIRECT FAULT of the candidate and now potus, Obama.

It is by his hand DIRECTLY and HIS hand alone that the patriot fire and ire in the American citizenry has RIGHTLY been aroused.

The fire WILL NOT be doused by the lame disregard for ALL the facts by the Obots, trolls and paid DNC/SOROS/MOVEON operatives who come on these threads to distract, distort, divert and further contribute to more affronts to our intelligence, our love of country and protection of her and our Constitution, no matter HOW many of them claim expertise, or state their military university/service credentials.

The recent grads and military members serving and fighting and dying for our freedoms today all over the world, 24/7 SO OUTDO the quibblers, PARSERS and DEFENDERS OF DARKNESS AND DISHONOR in valor, intrepidity, allegiance to and love of country and Constitution. God bless and protect them.

I'd be ashamed to defend darkness, LACK of transparency, and acceptance of the lowest level and highly questionable levels of disclosure possible in a matter of such high stakes .. and WORSE, to actually ADMIT and be PROUD, smug, snarky, mocking and downright arrogant in being a DEFENDER OF DARKNESS.

Their reward awaits them from a higher justice than here on this earth, I have no doubt.

This fire will be doused, the boil of distrust relieved when all the COMPLETE, OFFICIAL records of this pretender from start to parents' marriage, paternity, Hawaii, Indonesia, Pakistan, Russia, schools, selective service, law license, Kenya, etc. are finally truthfully revealed ... and we've seen enough in other deceitful chapters to know that the truth WILL come out eventually.

[DJ MacWoW]

Younger people aren't taught to research. They ask questions. I get online and search. I ask if I can't find what I'm looking for.

I have a 24 yr old daughter. She had a teacher that kept telling a particular student, "I'm not a computer and don't respond to "prompts. Look it up." LOL

[EnderWiggins]

Unless you are of the very bizarre opinion that the Hawaii DOH only has a single seal in their entire office, and they throw it out and buy a new one every year, I have no idea what you imagine you are demonstrating. It reminds of the old joke about why there's no ice in Poland.

Because the old lady with the recipe' died.

[parsifal]

Cumulative evidence! That’s the word. From Latin “Cumulo Flaggellus Equinus” Floggin a dead horse!

parsy, who had to look it up

[little jeremiah]

Dr. West left a bound record of the vital statistics of each infant he delivered at K. hospital?

That’s interesting.

[Red Steel]

I can’t really say what’s the best of the best. What I’ve got is a bunch of small dots of ink. Any one by itself can be overlooked, but when you put them all together it makes a definite image. The points I’ve made are the more significant bits from a large pile of other similar stuff. In fact, I’ve got more that I could and should post.

Butter, the technique that you and others have been employing is well established way to find out what is hidden. The military call it "Open Source Intelligence" or OSINT where they collect and process known information which could lead to hidden secrets in countries or enemy organizations like al Quada... and it does work.

[little jeremiah]

All she needs to do is ask a few seasoned freeper for links, or do a simple search, or just read the current threads.

She jumped into FR and was instatly rude and abrasive and makes not the slightest attmept to learn anything.

[DJ MacWoW]

I read a quote from a Founder but can’t find it and didn’t bookmark it. Nuts! Anyway, it said: Let the office seek the man, not the man seek the office.

[DJ MacWoW]

Yup. Hence my assumption of youth.

[BP2]

I went back to see exactly what you were talking about. The image of the COLB could only be entered into evidence as what it is, a photograph of a thing.

OMG - BWA-HA-HA!

SO Parsley, you're saying that if you went to Court with a PICTURE of something like say, a Contract — when you can just as easily provide the judge with an notarized and actual HARD COPY of the Contract — the judge wouldn't laugh his ass off at you and refuse it as proper prima facie??!

Excuse me ...

and LMAO!!!

So Parsley, when you got your first Passport, did you try this technique by submitting a PHOTO of your "birth certificate"?

[Red Steel]

You can’t stand it when your posts gets impeached. I showed you real evidence that you delusionally dismiss. You say Obama’s COLB is “conclusive” and “reliable”. I give you tangible evidence on the contrary.

No, you are the joke here.

[EnderWiggins]

Oh BP... please... your ADHD is showing again.

A court won't have to settle for an image of the COLB. They get to see the real thing.

But you... you have to settle for the image. That's all you'll ever get to see.

[EnderWiggins]

You gave nothin....

I don't think you could recognize "real evidence" if it bit you on the face.