Posted on 12/29/2009 10:19:57 PM PST by myfreepress
Tonight was an interesting night at Bible study. Our discussion was about how God wants us to Pray and treat those in Authority over us.
We basically talked about how it is counterproductive for the Church to be at odds with civil Government. God has given the church spiritual authority, and the Government civil authority (Romans 13:1-8).
Romans 13:1-8
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
This raises some questions in my mind. What do we do when we disagree with those who have been appointed over us? What if the people appointed over us are of evil? Should we rebel against them and ignore this part.....
(Excerpt) Read more at myfreepress.net ...
>>> We are the law not the politicians.
Thanks... and let us not forget that defending others is as justified as defending ourselves.
Our right to LIFE liberty and the pursuit of happiness is dependent upon having doctors around who are free to keep us alive... just for starters.
I do think we are at the breaking point of losing our current form of government... no doubts there... but isn’t it funny that the very industry charged with defending life would be the first to fall for failing to defend the life of the unborn? I wonder if our nation’s doctors could reverse this national spiral towards socialism/marxism by simply taking a more active stance against the slaughter of our future generations?
>>> It is Obama that is defying the legal authority of the Land, our Constitution. His ACORN registration voter fraud is giving us Marxism through Obamacare.
I find that part of this whole saga the most interesting...
because if this nation can humble itself before God for forgiveness, that is the one wildcard that can virtually un-do EVERYTHING that has been done against this nation.
The clock is running out though. If we fail as a nation, the next presidential election will be the last one.
Yes sins can be instantly forgiven but the earthly effects may linger for years as you pretty much said.
GOD has used adversity throughout history to forge the character of persons as well as nations to achieve His desired outcome. Those seeming the most at peace during such relied the heaviest on GOD for deliverance and justice.
Trials of this earth are nil in comparison to the joy which awaits those who are in Christ Fold. However evil our leaders are they are defeated. But no matter how good the benevolent leaders are they too shall pass from this world as well. Some will be missed & mourned and some removal will be seen as a blessing and deliverance.
This the my Biblical understanding too! It needs much further understanding by Christians and newbies to the faith...
“Two different points here. Since the government is temporary and God’s kingdom eternal you must “Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s and unto God that which is God’s” meaning don’t lose your salvation for temporary issues. So you fight the government you disagree with through peaceful means, voting, protesting etc.
Second point. You do as Jesus did, never compromise with evil.”
Oh, great post. I was puzzling and puzzling and going over my Bible when I read this thread and puzzling more. But, you’re right. This country was founded on certain restrictions on leaders and ‘God given rights’ of the people. ‘By the people, of the people and for the people’. That’s our set of rules in a country given us by God. To fight those who are actually fighting our form of government isn’t fighting at all. It’s defending.
So, we’re not fighting Obama, Reid, Pelosi etc, we’re defending the rules laid down for those who are in positions of authority by ‘we the people’. We don’t have masters in the USA or rulers or powers.
Thank you for pointing that out!
>>> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State
Key points in there:... “well regulated” and “free State”.
I don’t think the constitution authorizes us to take up arms individually against authority. I do think the states are within their rights to form and control militia to protect states rights. Right now, that wouldn’t take much, because I doubt very many federal troops would follow orders to shoot at state troops... but apparently Obama is now working on bringing in outside help with Interpol. STATES BETTER WAKE UP AND GET ORGANIZED!
G-d has given us a constitutional republic. We live under a set of rules ordained by G-d. When naughty people grab power and break the rules G-d has given us to govern ourselves, it is our DUTY to throw the bums out and restore that government which G-d has given us. If someone steals your TV set, you can call the police to get it back. If someone steals your government, you can join the revolution to get it back. Read the Declaration of Independence. It deals with this issue from a Christian perspective. It is no small matter to overthrow a king. With divine provenance at his back. But it was done and done within scripture.
Well said!
But, Romans 13:3 states, "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil."
Therefore, we must assume that those who are a terror to good works are not the "rulers" written of in Romans 13:3, but rather are instruments of the devil. James instructed us to resist the devil (James 4:7).
This is doctrinally incorrect. You don't have to pray to get your stolen TV back. You can call the police and they have guns to help them enforce the law. We have laws and we look to our government to enforce these laws fairly and equally. When bad people abuse government power, we have the right to remove them from office. If they resist peaceful attempts to remove them, we have the G-d given right to remove them in the least sinful way. Respectful Revolution. Look at Czechoslovakia.
The traditional Christian position is, you submit to the authorities, unless they command you to sin.
There is ample biblical evidence for this. Daniel was forbidden to pray, prayed anyway (publicly), got put in the lion’s den. The Hebrew midwives were commanded to kill the Hebrew males babies; they didn’t do it. Etc.
Aborting babies, burning “witches,” those would be sinful. So we don’t submit to that.
Government is not allowed to command you to sin.
(I didn’t reference the Inquisition, because I am not sure what role government played in that).
“I want to do nothing but fight, fight, FIGHT!!”
There is a Christian way to fight evil; there is a non-Christian way. You just have to fight the Christian way.
>>> So, we’re not fighting Obama, Reid, Pelosi etc, we’re defending the rules laid down for those who are in positions of authority by ‘we the people’. We don’t have masters in the USA or rulers or powers.
Your Welcome... and thanks... but please note my previous post about sovereignty of the state. The state has far more power under the constitution than it realizes or exercises. I think that is something which needs to change, and they will do so ONLY with our help.
“it tells us that Solomon had many wives and concubines, but doesn’t tell us whether or not that was a good thing.”
Actually Scripture ordains one man/one woman marriage from the beginning, and requires that elders be the husband of one wife. There is no allowance for concubines in the law, either.
All laws regarding marriage are referencing one man and one woman.
“Ask them how my Church and I could pray for their success.”
I think you should be clear that you would not be praying for the success of any evil plans, but for their salvation and wisdom and so forth.
Other Pauline doctrines addressing the issue are found in Ephesians 6:10-20 which might help place our duty in appropriate light.
While Paul might not be a final authority, where he was inspired by God the Holy Spirit to communicate His Word and the mind of Christ, the authority of Christ does have veracity in the Pauline epistles. Read Eph 3, while in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, with close attention to Eph 3:9-13 for further clarification.
Absolutely true! Magna Carta or Magna Charta [Lat., = great charter], the most famous document of British constitutional history, issued by King John John, 1167–1216, king of England (1199–1216 ...
M-C was inculcated, and lived by our Founding Fathers, and Passed on to Patriots, and Citizen that respect the process of Amending the Constitution...
which can be done easily when a majority of the citizens in their respective states agree to make changes...
that is the way that protects the majorities values as well as protect the Original US Constitutional Document...
the left hates the process to Amend the Constitution because they are the perpetual minority, that does not want a Moral limit on their actions, and they reject evil, and make excuses for all human frailty vs trying to allowing persons to make individual choices, and respect truth as it is...
not some petty esoteric secularism which only brings the good in humans down to the basest levels of the lowest common denominator of inhumanity
Right, according to the power we’ve given them.
Couldn’t Romans actually, in our case, be a command to those we’ve elected? They’re elected to serve us. That makes ‘them’ the servants and subject to our wishes. We have the power and authority to vote them out of office as well. So, if they ignore our outcry for what we want they are actually the ones breaking this submission rule. Is that a stretch?
Our hope and survival as a nation rest solely on if this nation repents. That means changed hearts and a return to Biblical principle our nation was founded on and asking GOD's Blessing with changed hearts.
In 30 years we've gone from a nation hearing about and embracing The Moral Majority which changed political history and brought us prosperity before the world to the immoral majority leading our nations future. We kept allowing the standards to be lowered and lowered.
An interesting point that we should take up later. As for myself submit is a dirty word. Good night and take care.
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