The REAL Story of Thanksgiving

I love history.

You know anything about the Huguenots and Bath, NC?

...was actually the history of the Jamestown settlement over a decade before

Yes indeed. (afraidfortherepublic, direct descendent of Edward Gurgonay who arrived at Jamestowne on The Prosperous -- 1607.

But the Jamestowne Thanksgiving was preceded by at least a half a century with celebrations by the Spaniards in Florida.

“...you forgot about the one in 1565..”

I didn’t forget, I just didn’t want to get into the Spanish history when the subject was English colonies. If you’ll reread what I wrote, you will see I said “by Englishmen..”

Thank you — sent!!

“Historical it was a fact they changed it to pursuit of happiness from security of property.”

And your evidence for this “fact” is what, exactly?

John Locke used “life, health, liberty and possessions” in his 1690 book. Locke also used the phrase “pursuit of happiness”. But there’s no evidence that Jefferson was citing Locke.

Jefferson was certainly influenced by the Virginia Declaration of Rights that he helped pass one month before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. His fellow Virginian George Mason wrote

“That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.”

Jefferson used the Virginia Declaration as a basis for writing the Declaration of Independence.

“For the reason I gave that slaves were property and that would of given the south the constitutional right to slavery.”

You confuse the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The Declaration contains the “life, liberty, pursuit of happiness” wording and it’s an announcement of American secession from Britain, not a document for setting up the American government.

you 'experts' weigh in with stuff like : You mean, other than the fact that the first Thanksgiving feast was held in the fall of 1621, to celebrate the Pilgrims' first successful harvest ... and that, a decade before the supposed transition to a free market economy? "

The article is cute, but it's bullsh*t, FRiend." and that they had no bountiful harvest that first fall -

No. 1, it wasn't a 'decade' before Bradford abandoned the communal approach and went to individual ownership/endeavor...he did that in 1623.

And, in his own hand, he wrote of that 1621 harvest: (and I would suggest to netmilsmom, that if, as you say, you want to teach the truth to your kids, you try reading what those who WERE THERE had to say) -

From Gov. Bradford's JOURNAL (let's at least get that straight. It was not his 'dairies' - it was a FAMILY JOURNAL he wrote for his descendent's.

To back up a bit from the Giving Thanks 3 day festival at the end of harvest in 1621, going back to July, and after making friends with the local Indians under the leadership of Massasoit. They made a trek to the Indian village and found them in poor straits, particularly as to food. Bradford tells how the men that visited the village 40 miles from Plymouth, came back tired and famished as the Indians, at that time, were still suffering from their terrible years of the 'wasting plague" and had little food.

Bradford: "For the Indeans used then to have nothing...They found ... the soyle good, & the people not many, being dead & abundantly wasted in the late great mortalitie which fell in all parts aboute three years before the coming of the English, wherein thousands of them dyed, they not being able to burie one another their sculs and bones were found in many places lying still above ground, where their houses & dwellings had been;a very sad spectackle to behold."

So the Indians, in 1621, were still suffering from their devastating losses from the sickness - which is what had wiped out Squanto's whole village (while he was a prisoner in Spain/England.) Indeed, when he returned and found all his people dead, not one left, he went to live with Massasoits people...and when the Pilgrims inquired as to whom they could pay to occupy the cleared land where the village had been, the Indians said they were welcome to it as there were no longer any to claim it.

Squanto had, that first spring, quickly moved to the Plymouth Village area, as he preferred the way the English lived, due to his years in Europe. He was invaluable to the colonists, as an interpretor and in teaching them how catch fish - and get eels out of the mud - and how to plant seeds in the new land, particularly corn. This was most instrumental in a bountiful harvest come Sept 1621 - so much so that they decided on a 3 day festival for Giving Thanks.

They invited Massasoit and 5 braves. They were to learn that when you invite one, in Indian society, you invite all. And so they were surprised when "90 braves" showed up. In those days, women and children would likely not have been mentioned in the count, so there were probably many more than 90.

Seeing the concern on the Pilgrims faces, Massasoit quickly summed up the problem and sent out a hunting party that came back with 5 deer.

They feasted, played games and had a grand old time for 3 days. However, they still had plenty of food to see through winter..

Then, at the end of Nov., over the horizon, came a ship they had not requested nor expected, full of people who - well, let's go back to Bradford's words:

"...there came a small ship to them unexpected or looked for, in came Mr. Cushman...and with him 35 persons to remain & live in the plantation; which did not a little rejoyce them. And when they came a shore and found all well, and saw plenty of vitails in every house, were no less glade. For most of them were lusty young men, and many of them wild enough, ...[this is where the lazy, etc, came in - NOT from the Pilgrim fathers] when they landed in Plymouth} ...there was not so much as bisket-cake or any other victialls for them, neither had they any bedding, ...nor pot nor pan, to drese any meate in; nor overmany cloaths..."

Bradford went on to say that . although they were glad of additional numbers, strength wise, they "could have wished that they had been in better condition,and all of them better furnished with provissions; but, " he wrote, "that could not now be helpte."

So they had a truly bountiful harvest and would have made it through the winter fine - had they not have been put upon by and almost doubling of their population to be fed and clothed and housed...

And these were not 'Pilgrims' with a common goal and togetherness. How would YOU fare under such circumstances, with no super markets down the road. Now, as to foods that first Thanksgiving, as Bradford mentioned, the Indians went out an bagged 5 deer, so we know they had venison. (Many of us up here still have venison along with turkey for the meal. I use homemade mincemeat pie, made with venison>)

Bradford, in "Mourt's Relations", which he and Edward Winslow wrote, lists some of the foods:

"Our harvest being gotten in, our Governor sent four men on fowling, that so we might after a more special manner rejoice together, ...They four in one day killed as much fowl as , with a little help beside, served the company almost a week. At which time, amonst other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of the Indians going amonst us, and amongst the rest their great king, Massasoit. with some 90 men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted. And they went out and killed 5 deer which they brought to the plantation and bestowed on our Governor..."

Back to his Journal, besides commenting on the plentiful harvest that year and the storing up of food that they "had all things in good and plenty" - and besides "a store of fowl...there was great store of wilde turkeys, of which they took many besides venison ...corn" etc.

After the devastating influx of the unexpected ship full of people with no provisions of their own, the Gov. and Winslow sent a letter to England with a list of provisions anyone coming to the colony would need to provide themselves with! After all, there was no WalMart over the hill.

Long post - but hopefully will dispel some of the NOTHING BUT PURE ASSUMPTIONS being made here.

Bradford was there. I'll take HIS word for it. And as I mentioned, if you want to know, to teach, or to opine, why don't you first go to the horses mouth and study. (I've been studying, researching and writing on them for over 50 years.)

Thanks for the writeup, which is very informative.

I note that it confirms my initial statement, that the premise of this article is bullsh*t.

I always had a hunch that the way this played out in various Conserva-media recounts wasn’t really the way it went down. It seemed a bit too hokey for real history. Thanks much for the enlightenment.

>>and I would suggest to netmilsmom, that if, as you say, you want to teach the truth to your kids, you try reading what those who WERE THERE had to say<<

Thank you!
Is what you have here, in one of the links above?

(looks like a unit studies lesson to me!)

You can get Bradford's Journal, now published as “Of Plymouth Plantation” as well as “Mourt’s Relations” on line.

There is also an excellent older publication by George F. Willison, “Saints and Strangers” that is quite accurate. You can usually find it “old books” stores.

Also, there is an excellent DVD - “Desperate Crossing” that is one of the most accurate to date - a great place to start.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y5B0VWH5L._SS500_.jpg

and online - the first segment on PBS’s “WE SHALL REMAIN” is quite accurate as to the actual relationship the original Pilgrim Father's had with the Indians... you can watch that online. (The whole series on the Indians is remarkable well done! I was totally amazed and elated.)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/

These just scratch the surface but are excellent for ‘getting to know the Pilgrims Fathers”

There are so many more interesting facts - did you know that John and Priscilla Alden had 11 children and built them their third house, in Duxbury which was lived in by Aldens’ until the 1950’s? It's now a living museum and worth the visit.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/
It's wonderful inside -

Also, there is still the Pilgrim, John Howland’s house in Plymouth Village and Major William Bradford's (Gov. B's son)house in Kingston .

http://www.wickedlocal.com/kingston/homepage/x1925654479

Did you know that they had trading posts as far north as Castine, in what is now Maine - used to be Mass? And that the trading post in what is now the Capitol of Maine, was 20’ x 60’ and a PREFAB? They made it in Plymouth and brought it up in sections on the Kennebec River. Howland, with his wife and 3 little girls, lived there in winter - when furs were best for trading. (And John Alden was arrested for murder there and hauled off to court in Boston...)

Lots and lots of ‘stuff’ to learn about them and their incredible adventures. WE could use more like them today! They went through incredible sacrifices, privations and dangers to rid themselves of an oppressive regime - I think we can understand why today...but there are no more 'untamed' lands to escape to!

OH! Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!!

You are a wealth of information!

Do you mind if I share your links with our homeschooling groups?

Like I said, we want the truth about our history. Not candy or crap, but the real stuff.

Well, they aren't "MY" links ;o) They're on the net for all to see.

Don't forget that the Pilgrim's LOVED colors and, using natural materials - plants and such - for dyes, had clothes of wonderful reds, oranges, yellows, blues, greens, browns etc.

I have written and harped for decades - and threatened murder and mayhem - when seeing them depicted in black and white.

It was the PURITANS of Boston Bay Colony that dressed in b&w, who didn't sing and such. They were a holier-than-thou bunch - but history and particularly schools - have mixed them up with the Pilgrims.

Elder William Brewster was the Pilgrims spiritual leader for decades until his death just short of 80. One of his favorite pieces of clothing was a long, red velvet cloak. And listed in his will - they always listed every thing, even to bed linens and stockings - were a pair of blue and a pair of green 'breeches'.

It's understandable they considered such things worth being listed in their wills as they were not easily come by. You couldn't order from Sears or LL Bean nor run down to WalMart. You had to raise the sheep, clean and card and spin the wool, weave the cloth and then make the clothes! (Or, in the case of Elder Brewster's cloak, have the material or cloak shipped from overseas.) As to bed linens, they were hand woven with flax which comes from a plant. It's back breaking work to beat the plants fibers into linen thread.

Most homes - like in John and Priscilla Alden's home in Duxbury, had a 'work room' in which there was a spinning wheel and a loom.

If we had to do all this for our clothes, we'd treasure them too! Even just back when I was a little girl on the farm with my grandparents, winter socks were all hand knit. When they got hole in the toe or heel, out came the darning 'egg' and the holes were carefully darned. It was a lot easier than to knit a whole new pair! And people didn't have to have walk-in closets! If you had a 'good' pair of shoes and an everyday pair - you were good. Ditto few clothes. Neither did they replace their wardrobe every season. Their clothes were well made with high quality fabrics and lasted years..especially since they didn't get worn out in modern day washer/dryers. ;o)

Sending you another post with an other area of interest that is fascinating on the Pilgrims.

You are amazing.

Have you ever considered a lecture series for kids?

And you know, my mom had a “darning egg”
Her Dad carved it in the shape of her foot when she was three.

My Polish Grandma with 12 kids darned socks too!

I put a picture of my girls up on my Facebook page in Polish dance outfits and bonnets from Ft. Boonesboro. People slammed me for putting them in colors and not the traditional Black and White “that the Pilgrims wore”. HA!!!!!!!

On June 7, 1776, Richard Henry Lee, following the instructions of the Virginia Convention, introduced a resolution at the Continental Congress in Philadelphia “that these United colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved.” The Continental Congress adopted Lee’s resolution and then appointed a committee of five—John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Roger Sherman, Thomas Jefferson, and Robert Livingston—to turn the resolution into a declaration of independence. Adams took charge and promptly assigned Jefferson to write a draft.

Jefferson did not want to do it. He watched Lee depart for home and longed to follow him. He was convinced that what was going on in Williamsburg, where the Convention’s delegates were drafting a constitution for the newly independent commonwealth, mattered more than what was going on in Philadelphia. Jefferson had even written a draft constitution that he hoped the Convention would adopt. What was the point of independence if you didn’t create the right form of government? “Should a bad government be instituted for us in the future,” he wrote Thomas Nelson in May 1776, “it had been as well to have accepted at first the bad one offered to us from beyond the water without the risk and expense of contest.”

Jefferson suggested Adams should draft the Declaration himself. Adams declined, giving several reasons, which he repeated years later in his autobiography:

That he was a Virginian and I a Massachusettensian. That he was a southern man and I a northern one. That I had been so obnoxious for my early and constant zeal in promoting the measure, that any draft of mine, would undergo a more severe scrutiny and criticism in Congress, than one of his composition. 4thly and lastly that would be reason enough if there were no other, I had a great opinion of the elegance of his pen and none at all of my own.

Adams’s arguments, Jefferson had to admit, made sense. Jefferson went to work and, a day or two later, produced a draft of what would become the Declaration of Independence. How he managed to write, in a matter of a day or two, the words that more than any others made America has been the subject of much debate. Part of the answer is he didn’t start from scratch. He had with him in Philadelphia, and he clearly drew from, his own previous writings, including his 1774 Summary View of the Rights of British America, his 1775 “Declaration . . . Setting forth the Causes and Necessity of their taking up Arms,” and his draft of a constitution for Virginia. He also had others’ recent works at hand, most notably a draft of Virginia’s Declaration of Rights, which was written by George Mason and adopted with amendments in the Virginia Convention. Mason’s declaration opened by stating: “That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent natural rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; among which are the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.” Jefferson’s most famous words were clearly derived from Mason’s; in Jefferson’s rough draft of the Declaration, men were “created equal,” they had “rights inherent and inalienable” (which he later changed to “inherent and inalienable rights”), and these rights included “the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” (which he later changed to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”).

Jefferson also drew from works that he did not have at his side in Philadelphia. He was familiar with the writings of seventeenth-century English writers, including John Milton, Algernon Sidney, and above all John Locke, who set forth a doctrine of natural rights in his Second Treatise on Government. He may also have drawn from Scottish philosophers, especially Francis Hutcheson.

Jefferson submitted his draft to Adams and Franklin, who made a few changes, among them that the rights Jefferson had declared to be “sacred and undeniable” were instead “self-evident.” The committee then sent the document on to the Congress, which made a total of eightysix changes. Most involved cutting (about a quarter of Jefferson’s text was eliminated), but the Congress also played with Jefferson’s language, for example changing “inherent and inalienable rights” to “certain inalienable rights.” “Inalienable” later became “unalienable,” probably when the Declaration was printed (the latter was more customary in the eighteenth century). Thus the words in their most familiar form: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

For Jefferson, seeing his words changed was agonizing, and some others also questioned the results. Richard Henry Lee wrote Jefferson that he wished “that the manuscript had not been mangled as it is.” Franklin, Jefferson later recalled, “perceived that I was not insensible to these mutilations” and tried to console him by telling him a story about a hatter who wrote what he considered superb copy for a sign advertising his store, then watched his friends edit it down to simply his name and a picture of a hat. Jefferson’s hat, this mangled manuscript, contained words that more than any made America; as Jefferson himself put it in 1824, the Declaration was “the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves.”

But—with so many sources and so many editors—was the Declaration truly Jefferson’s?

Adams, who was admittedly jealous of Jefferson, later wrote that there was “not an idea in it, but what had been hackneyed in Congress for two years before.” Jefferson denied he had copied any other writing: “I turned to neither book nor pamphlet while writing it,” he insisted in an 1823 letter to James Madison. Jefferson did not deny, however, that the words of others, past and present, were on his mind. Indeed, it would hardly have been possible to secure Congress’s support for independence had Jefferson’s words not been, as he put it in an 1825 letter to Henry Lee, “an expression of the American mind.” His purpose, he explained to Lee, had been “not to find out new principles, or new arguments, never before thought of, not merely to say things which had never been said before; but to place before mankind the common sense of the subject, in terms so plain and firm as to command their assent.” The Declaration’s authority, Jefferson rightly added, “rests . . . on the harmonizing sentiments of the day, whether expressed in conver- sation, in letters, printed essays, or the elementary books of public right, as Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney, etc.”

By the 1820s, when Jefferson rose to defend his authorship, the Declaration was well on its way to becoming the premiere “expression of the American mind.” Partly, this was because of partisan politics. When Jefferson emerged as the leader of the Republican Party, his supporters began to celebrate the “deathless instrument” penned by “the immortal Jefferson.” Jefferson’s opponents in the Federalist Party argued that he wrote only a “small part of that memorable instrument” and that what he did write “he stole from Locke’s Essays.” After the Federalists faded away and a new party system emerged, both parties claimed to be carrying on Jefferson’s legacy, and both embraced the Declaration. Jefferson happily accepted the Declaration’s new role. In 1824, when Congress sent him copies of a new facsimile edition, he expressed his pleasure at the evident “reverence for that instrument,” which he viewed as “a pledge of adhesion to its principles and of a sacred determination to maintain and perpetuate them.”

To later generations of Americans, the most important principle pledged in the Declaration was that of equality. Neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights asserted that all men were created equal. So it made sense that Americans seeking equality, whether workers or women or blacks, would turn to the Declaration. At the Seneca Falls Convention of 1848, women declared it “self-evident” that “all men and women are created equal.” Abolitionists like William Lloyd Garrison urged, in 1847, the formation of a new government faithful to “the principles of the Declaration of Independence.” At a Fourth of July celebration in 1852, Frederick Douglass asked the crowd: “Would you have me argue that man is entitled to liberty? That he is the rightful owner of his own body? You have already declared it.” Most famously, in his 1863 Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln looked back four score and seven years ago to 1776, the year “our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”

Did you know that Elder William Brewster had quite a distinguished history?

He went off to Peterhouse (Cambridge) College at age 15. Kids might be fascinated to learn that the great dining hall of the Harry Potter movies is replicated from the very dining hall at Peterhouse that Brewster ate in.

He read and spoke 5 languages, including Latin and Greek. (This came in handy after they fled England to Holland where they lived 12 years. Brewster made his living teaching English at Leiden University. He also had a ‘secret’ business: he operated a clandestine press where he printed books and tracks against the crown (England._ - One such, that infuriated the King - who put a price on his head and set Pinkerton detectives to try and capture him - was the historically famous “Perth Assembly” - a copy listed in books he owned when he died. He had over 400 books in a time when most people still signed X for their names, not to mention, books were rare then. Printing was quite a process.

link to is will, including “ 1 violet color cloth coate”

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/willwbrewster.htm

He was plucked from college by Queen Elizabeth 1’s ambassador to the Netherlands and became his most trusted (’like a son’) aide. There would follow intrigue involving the beheading of Mary, Queen of Scots that would result in the Ambassador being thrown into the Tower of London, where Brewster continued to serve him for 2 years.

Then Brewster's father, (Sr.) died. He was the Post Master and bailiff of Scooby Manor in Scooby, Nottingham shire. Young Brewster then inherited these posts.

Scooby Manor was on the Old North Road, half way between London and Scotland and was the most popular stopover “way station” for dignitaries and royalty. It was a favorite of King Henry V111 and later, Queen Elizabeth the 1st, both of whom tried to buy it. (Well, actually, when King Henry VIII stopped by with several hundred courtiers and servants, he did buy it in 1544 - but sold it back to the Archbishop.

William Sr., was appointed bailiff in 1575. King James, on his way from Scotland to become King of England, passed by and also tried to buy it. (Young William was born in Scooby in 1566-67. )

The property included seventeen subordinate villages and the manor itself had 39 rooms, 3 man-made fishponds, it's own bakery and brewery, and the Royal Post,

It was here, in the Manor, that the first meetings of the future Pilgrims Fathers took place. They came, one by one, in the dark of the night to escape detection and arrest - and left the same way. There's a wonderful scene of this in the DVD I mentioned, “Desperate Crossing”.

It was through this connection that the young William Bradford, from nearby Austerfield, met and came under the tutelage of Brewster who also furthered his education. (Bradford also had a large library when he died.)

And so on and so on. These were not uneducated peasants nor criminals the Crown just sent off to suffer the first hard and dangerous years of establishing a foothold in the wild new country. (The Pinkerton's criss crossed back and forth from England to Scotland in pursuit of Brewster, but he was always one step ahead of them. When those who would become the Mayflower Passengers finally got on board for passage, in England, Brewster had to be smuggled aboard to avoid detection.)

Not in particular but I do know that Huguenots invested heavily into merchant shipping ~ that served several needs of course ~ one of which was to make it easier to flee the King of France.

You find Huguenot settlements all along the American coastline dating to different periods. Many of them claim to have been "the first". Truth is, no one knows.

Little known to history there were Protestant Spaniards. Pizzaro and many of his men were, in fact, Protestant or leaning that way. The Spanish Crown went after them for that and other reasons. Lots of evil propaganda about that group ~ so if you start checking on them ignore the criticism and keep your eyes on the NAMES.

Nope, the Declaration is a document for setting up a government ~ remember, it was issued on behalf of the "United States".

It also discusses the elements of statehood ~ and pretty well covers the waterfront when it comes to what an independent government may do.

For many Americans the Declaration IS the Constitution, and the document issued in 1790 has more the status of an operations manual.

Wow! You really are a fount of knowledge. And wisdom. Thank you for sharing so much.

He was the second major realtor on the scene.

Recall that when Governor Bradford and others were hustling food from the Indian storage huts (the Indians having died of a plague in that area) they encountered a "dead Frenchman".

They never named him. At the same time there were several French Protestants who were with the original group at St. Sauveur, then later in Jamestown ~ having made their way there on their own, or with Samual Argall (recall from the only extant discussions of what went on in Nova Scotia that Argall "dispersed the Protestant ministers" but it does not say that he loaded them on the boat with the French Catholics to return to France.)

These folks show up in Jamestown in different records over the next 10 years.

What you can do is find the various lists of names of the St. Sauveur company, the lists of names of all the inhabitants in Jamestown, and the lists of names of all the colonists to arrive in Plimouth (which I believe includes a bit more than just the Mayflower landing party), figure out the proper pronunciations and spellings, and you'll hit on a common thread.

Virtually any "Virginia Room" at any county library in Virginia will have all those documents available.

It's a good deal of reading, but well worth the adventure.

OF NOTE: Argall came upon a rowboat out in the Bay of Fundy on his way to the French colony. There were three gentlemen on board ~ one named Anthony DeLaGard ~ according to records.

That name has for a long time been taken to mean the fellow was a minor officer in the British Navy.

It's actually the surname of the third ranking nobles in the Swedish Empire ~ they did well when Grandpa DeLaGardie left France for greener grass in Sweden training troops (the Vassa King married one of his daughters to him). A close relative to this fellow designed Fort Christian in Delaware, and another one initiated the establishment of a Swedish presence in America. 1613 is rather early to be out rowing a boat in the Bay of Fundy, but Scanderhoovians are tough. For a variety of reasons these three fellows arrived in Jamestown. Their names got entangled with the Klumph family tradition later on ~ which stripped them of one nationality, gave them another, lost their "titles" and failed to report on what their occupations might have been.