Posted on 06/21/2009 8:08:26 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Ashby Jones:
The Senate unanimously passed a resolution on Thursday apologizing for slavery, making way for a joint congressional resolution. Click here for the WaPo story. “You wonder why we didn’t do it 100 years ago,” Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), lead sponsor of the resolution, said after the vote. “It is important to have a collective response to a collective injustice.”
Memo to Senator Harkin: We had a collective response. It was called the Army of the Potomac. Not to mention the Emancipation Proclamation, the 13th Amendment, the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and decades of affirmative action.
Jones continues: Randall Robinson, author of “The Debt: What America Owes to Blacks,” said he sees the Senate’s apology as a “confession” that should lead to a next step of reparations. “Much is owed, and it is very quantifiable,” he said. “It is owed as one would owe for any labor that one has not paid for, and until steps are taken in that direction we haven’t accomplished anything.”
Back in 2004, I wrote a column for TCS Daily that addressed the reparations issue: Descendants of African-American slaves are suing Lloyd's of London seeking reparations on grounds that Lloyd's insured ships used in the slave trade in the Eighteenth Century. Although a federal judge recently dismissed a class action seeking reparations for slavery from a number of US corporations, lawyer Edward Fagan who successfully pursued Swiss banks on behalf of Holocaust victims seems confident that he's got a strong argument:
"Why is it too far fetched to say blacks should be entitled to compensation for damages and genocide committed against them, when every other group in the world that has been victimized in this way has been?"
A fair question, but there is a big difference between reparations from corporations for the benefit of victims of the Holocaust or Japanese internment, to cite two commonly used examples, and the descendants of slavery.
Legal liability can be justified on a number of grounds, such as deterrence, compensation, and retributive justice. Requiring a corporation to pay reparations to victims of centuries or even decades old wrongs advances neither deterrence nor retributive justice.
Who do we punish when we force the corporation to pay reparations? Since the payment comes out of the corporation's treasury, it reduces the value of the residual claim on the corporation's assets and earnings. In other words, the shareholders pay, not the directors and officers who actually committed the alleged wrongdoing (who in most of these cases are long dead anyway).
As far as deterrence goes, the problem is that shareholders don't control corporations. Corporation law assigns the responsibility for making corporate policy to the board of directors and the firm's managers. Holding the shareholders liable for something that happened decades ago is unlikely to have much deterrent effect on the corporation's current directors and managers. Human nature being what it is, current managers likely believe that they won't commit the errors of their predecessors. On top of which, the prospect that shareholders will be held liable is far less likely to deter management misconduct than would the prospect that the managers who made the decisions would be held personally liable.
Retributive justice likewise is poorly-served by corporate-level liability. Retributive justice is legitimate only where the actor to be punished has committed acts to which moral blameworthiness can be assigned. Because the corporation's legal personhood is a mere legal fiction, however, a corporation is not a moral actor.
Edward, First Baron Thurlow, put it best: "Did you ever expect a corporation to have a conscience, when it has no soul to be damned, and nobody to be kicked?" The corporation is simply a nexus of contracts between factors of production. As such, there is no moral basis for applying retributive justice to a corporation -- there is nothing there to be punished.
Even if you assume the corporation is still benefiting from alleged wrongdoing that happened decades or even centuries ago, the modern shareholders are mere holders in due course. It is therefore difficult to see a moral basis punishing them. They have done nothing for which they are blameworthy.
In sum, both deterrence and retributive justice require that punishment be directed solely at those who actually commit wrongdoing. In this context, it would be the directors, officers, or controlling shareholders who actually enslaved people. Since they're long dead, there is nobody left who properly can be punished.
This leaves compensation. When compensation is the goal of a particular punishment, it is more appropriate to treat the corporation as though it were a real entity that can be punished through fines or tort liability. After all, the corporation likely will have far deeper pockets and thus far greater ability to compensate victims than either managers or shareholders.
As a matter of compensatory justice, however, reparations for slavery differ significantly from the Holocaust or Japanese internment. In the latter cases, there were living victims whose injuries could be redressed. In the case of African-American slavery, there are no living victims or even immediate descendants.
Courts have routinely held that descendants of slaves have suffered no legally cognizable injury for which they have standing to sue. In his decision in the African-American Slave Descendants Litigation case, for example, federal district court judge Charles Norgle rejected the plaintiffs' argument that they suffered continuing harms, in form of racial profiling, racial slurs, and shorter life expectancy, as result of the enslavement of their ancestors.
Slavery was a great injustice. Yet, there is no moral case for reparations. None of the principal legitimate purposes of punishment -- deterrence, compensation, or retributive justice -- would be served by requiring corporations to pay such reparations.
Not to disagree with you, but I think Roots did show that Kunta Kinte was captured by other Africans. The White guy was just there to collect.
Well not only the liberals voted for this. Not a single conservative had the courage to oppose it.
>>Some of mine were Quakers and helped slaves escape.
...jes’ sayin’...<<
OK, ask for 20% of all the reparations. 1.5 million each and 12% of the USA population of 300 million makes — what, 10.8 trillion?
That really is true...I think...about his ancestors selling Africans as slaves. His bunch is Arab-African...or vice -versa...whatever. LOL!
If it’s any comfort, any money they recieve will more than likely be worthless, as the only real way Big Brother can pay them is by printing up more. Thus, they’ll be little better off; they’ll probably be worse, since by that time, Big Brother’s control will be slipping and there won’t be any government goon to force people to suck up to them.
I should think that the deaths of over 660,000 men on both sides would’ve been reparation enough, but then liberals are never happy. And since the Republican party did more for blacks than the Democratic party ever could, you’d think they’d shut up.
“My white ancestors on my Mother’s side were indentured servants. Where’s my payback?”
Mine were too. When their time of service was over, they didn’t get their “40 acres and a mule” either. Think I’ll add the cost of that, plus interest, to my payback.
Before the 60s is what I meant to write.
Not apologizing for me. If anyone should, it should be the Democrats!
__________________________
Had enough?
A Million Man March on Washington is being organized!
Join Dr. Orly Taitz at the Million Man March Sept.12-13
Anti-Obama organizations are being united at Freedoms First
http://www.freedomsfirst.org/
for a ‘million man’ march on Washington. http://www.resistnet.com/ is joining with a reported half a million sign up already!
The permit is secured- AND ALREADY almost A MILLION AMERICANS HAVE SIGNED UP!
This is the only way we will ever get the attention of our elected officials, the MSM and the masses- protest!
From the FreedomsFirst website:
We are moving forward on our rally in Washington D C.
We are working non stop in preparations for this historical event to be held Sept 12-13 2009 at the Lincoln Memorial Reflections pool in front of the Lincoln Memorial.
As for the time, The million man march that took place a few years age took over 2 years to organize, we are trying to push this through as fast as we can.
To protest in DC you have to have a permit and have approval to use a certain piece of land.
We called ahead of filing for these things. September 12 &13 were the next available days they had.
The other organization, resistnet.com, which was putting together a march for May 30, didn’t do this so they were refused their permit. Now they are joining with our group. So, we are doing this absolutely as soon we can.
To have a successful march takes time and organization.
Why are we protesting ?
1. To get the attention of the mainstream media.
2. To demand That Obama Provide proof that he is eligible to be president.
3. To demand that Congress and the Supreme court uphold our constitution.
4. To inform the public on the issue of Obama’s ineligibility to be president of the USA.
5. To demand that they can not take our constitutional rights away.
PRESIDENT OBAMA, WE DEMAND THAT YOU BE TRANSPARENT NOW
We will come together in a peaceful rally.
We are proud Americans who fear that we are losing the America we all know and love.
The America where millions have served in our military sacrificing their lives so that we remain free.
A people who honor their flag and understand what it means to fly it and are so proud to do so.
It is time for our voices to be heard loud and clear. Our government is for the people and by the people.
We are Americans who see our rights slipping away as we speak.
It is time our voices are heard.
It is time for us to shout loudly and strongly that we refuse to live under a socialist regime, where our voices are silenced.
Lets take this action now before we awaken one morning and our freedoms are nothing more than a memory.
WE WILL BE UNITED- CHRISTIAN, JEW, BUDDHIST, HINDU, ATHEIST, BLACK AND WHITE.
WE WILL BE ONE- ONE OF MANY WHO STAND AS PATRIOTIC AMERICANS DEMANDING OUR VOICES BE HEARD.
We will be DEMANDING THAT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
WE DEMAND THE TRANSPARENCY HE PROMISED !!!!!!!!
GOD BLESS US ON THIS RALLY.
WITH YOUR PRAYERS, YOUR DEDICATION AND YOUR HELP, IT WILL BE
AN HISTORICAL, MAGICAL, WONDERFUL SHOW OF THE REAL AMERICA.
We ask you to wear RED, WHITE AND BLUE CLOTHING.
BRING YOUR FLAGS WAVE THEM HIGH.
SIGNS WILL BE PROVIDED- WE WANT TO GIVE THE GREATEST IMPRESSION OF WHO WE ARE AS WE WILL BE SEEN ALL OVER THE WORLD.
UNITED AND PEACEFUL AND WITH CONTROL
WE WILL LEAVE THE GROUNDS AS CLEAN AS THEY WERE GIVEN TO US.
Entertainment will be provided.
We are setting up a wonderful assortment of guest speakers, political and non political, prominent people and many surprises.
Major news networks, including CNN, MSNBC and Fox News. Resistnet.com will also attend.
We will have live speakers and other entertainment for you.
We are working to secure Alan Keyes, Rev. Manning and Chuck Norris as star speakers.
MUCH more to come.
Please make your reservations early as hotels and motels will fill quickly.
. Buses and shuttles will be provided to transport you from your hotels to the on site
rally.
.Tents will be provided as shelter for our entertainers and guest speakers.
.We will provide a First Aid Station
with a Registered nurse on duty along with an ambulance to be standing by for emergencies should
they arise.
. We are planning to have at least ONE THOUSAND porta potties.
.A tent to store emergency water and other supplies should they be needed will be provided.
. A welcome tent for you to pick up flyers with information of scheduled times for our speakers and
entertainment events and other important information including restaurants and areas of
interest, etc will be provided.
Please take the time to sign up so we have an idea of how many people we have attending and to get update emails so you know what to do, where to meet, where to park and what is happening, etc.
TO SIGN UP AND/OR VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP FOR THE RALLY, PLEASE EMAIL STEVE AT freedomsfirst@inbox.com
THANK YOU WITH OUR HEARTS FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND YOUR COMMITMENT FOR THIS GREAT
EVENT!!!!!!!!
__________________________________________________
Please help Texans watch their border with Mexico. The drug war is spilling over into Texas, and in the event of a collapse of the Mexican government milliions of illegals might try to flee over the border:
http://www.blueservo.net/camload.php?camid=11&frameid=10
That is a lot to apologize for.
From his phony Vietnam War record through his ass kissing of Daniel Ortega through his generally disgusting voting record, he is ripe for a hemp rope.
I never figured how a sober sided hard working state like Iowa could elect that chump.
I can see the argument against indentured servitude coming up. Indentured servants willingly submitted to it for the end goal of receiving freedom and a start in America whereas slaves from Africa (and other parts of the world) didn’t willingly submit to anything and expected little of anything else. The slaves were freed anyway.
We’ve been through several generations of those freed slaves. They have had time to better their lot. But, along came the Democrats whose primary goal in life is control. Democrats have kept the black people and poor whites down as a voting block, encouraging out of wedlock procreation, destitution, and lack of self esteem. As such they expect government to provide everything for them (”I want a house with a kitchen and a car, Mr. Obama!”). In order to maintain that sham, the Obama Administration has to destroy capitalism as the main source of job creation. The American Dream died on January 20, 2009 when Obama was coronated.
I agree that every person alive today who was a slave should be paid by those people alive today who were slaveowners.
No takers?
Next agenda item, please.
“One of the many problems of the payback approach is that many of the people who most deserve retribution are no longer alive. You can take symbolic revenge on people who look like them, but this removes the whole moral element.
If it is all right to discriminate today against individuals who have done you no harm, then why was it wrong to discriminate against you in the past?”
Right on!
Yea...they took risks, didn’t they.
“The political party that controlled the seceding southern states in our Civil War was the same party the created the Ku Klux Klan which intimidated black voters not to vote against them during Reconstruction: the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Let them apologize and pay out of their own pockets.”
Just incredible that they’ve been able to grab the whole civil rights mantra from such a disgusting background . . . another example of friendly media.
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