Posted on 08/29/2008 8:51:20 AM PDT by Señor Zorro
August is rolling over into September and, before we know it, election day will be upon us. Perhaps it is merely my impression, but most here on FR seem to have settled down with the idea of John McCain both as the Republican nominee (which he is certain to be, regardless) and, even, as President of the United States. The initial candidate debate has all but faded and virtually all here have gelled back into the Republican camp instead of the "Republicans for Romney", "Republicans for Giuliani", "Republicans for Hunter", etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum. No doubt, this is precisely what the party dons are happy to see: lively debate during the primaries and then the base falls lockstep in line with the leadership in their infinite wisdom.
And it makes me feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. Compare the tenor of the threads, between McCain's maverick moments during Bush's presidency, especially the "Gang of 14" incident, and now. Does anyone remember the hate for "The Maverick"? The "Traitor"? Two years ago, how many here would have voted for McCain. The reason for the change, most would say, is political pragmatism. We gotta stop Obama. How many here would pick Gerald Ford over Ronald Reagan today? Not many, I should think. Yet, when Carter won the general election, we, as a nation, got Reagan after Carter managed to spend four years highlighting everything that is wrong with liberalism. It is easy to say that we will take McCain so that we will not have Obama. It is giving up the long term good to maybe (I stress maybe; the winner of this contest will be far from certain) prevent a present evil. A lesser evil. That is precious little consolation.
As soon as that line is crossed, there will be no chance left of the Republican party going back. They know that the faithful will plod along, voting Republican though the Republican party has long since turned its back on their principles.
I will vote third party--not because I think that the candidate will win (numerically, I think it is all but impossible, though God works miracles in his own time). Nor because I think the candidate is ideal (if that were the standard, not a single human being could be elected to any office), but because I will not cross this line in the sand.
Which do you predict?
I predict: YES.
If you predict NO, what was his conversion?
If you predict YES (OK I know about the Obamaphobia issues) then what is your SPECIFIC PLAN to oppose John McCain on those policies that he RINOizes on as an extension of his Senate behavior, and do you support a challenge to him in 2012? Would his Vice President mount such a challenge on behalf of Conservatism if it got that bad? Or is your support without conditions or an alternative, paralell strategy?
Are you thinking that far ahead?
What is your Plan B if McCain sours on us like one year old milk, which is exactly what I say he will do.
They want us to get in the cage with the jaguar out of fear of the approaching tiger, with not so much as a STICK to protect ourselves (conservatism) but just blind faith that jaguar is not going to sink HIS teeth into our bones.
People are supporting McCain without any thinking it over and constructing realistic, doable action plans to reign the guy in when/if he goes totally contrary to Conservative Values on Big Ticket Issues. It is all just on blind faith and blind fear.
I remember the “compassionate” especially when Bush was trying to “compromise” with the Democrats.
But I don’t remember too much of the “conservatism”. Except when it came to standing up to and fighting back against Democratic sleazy tactics. Then Bush conserved a lot of his time and efforts. And he conserved money when he had a chance to help fund conservative candidates (like Pat Toomey) in 2006.
What I’m hoping for is the McCain tries to cut spending and fights back against the Dem lies.
So far he has shown a good deal of “fight” in himself. Hopefully he will do something to end or cut back all the earmark spending in Congress and across the board in the federal government.
I agree that the odds are slim, and if you want to vote third party or not vote at all, go ahead. As for me, I’ll hold my nose and continue to do all I can personally to support and elect conservatives, here in Pennsylvania and in the rest of the country.
As of today, the only money I’ve donated is to Captain Duncan D. Hunter (Hunter’s son) and Colonel Bill Russell.
No doubt about it, it’s going to be a rough 4 years coming.
my big pet peeve is seeing conservatism hijacked and neutralized which is EXACTLY the Republican Country Club powers that be playbook plan, and exactly what they are putting into action, and exactly what swarms of conservatives are falling for just out of fear of Obambi, without considering the alternatives or working out options to go after and police and reign in McCain if/when HE gets out of line. to not do this is the essence of being co-opted and giving up your powers so naively, failing to negotiate or grab as many bargaining chips as you can before going into the big game. i cannot believe how gullible, wishy-washy, influenceable, foolish, overly optimistic and naive some conservatives are, but we saw it before in internal Republican politics, so I am not suprised i guess.
So you’re saying is it would be better to start off with Obama and be certain this country will march towards socialism?
First off, I predict McCain won’t go as sour as you fear. Will he propose things I do not care for? You bet. George W. Bush has several gallons of bad milk on his conscience as far as I’m concerned. Yet I am extremely glad neither Gore or Kerry won the presidency, because of the certain disaster that would have meant.
I also predict that because Obama is supposed to win the presidency hands down, when he doesn’t, the anger and viciousness of the left will only increase. They will be even less willing to work with a Republican administration, even if that administration is Republican in name only.
So my plan, since you asked, is to fight the fight for the future of this country in the house and senate. It is of utmost importance to elect true conservatives, to counter Obama (worst case scenario), or balance a Rino President (not as bad as worst case scenario, IMHO). I’m not sure if we could regain the majority in this election, but at a minimum a filibuster proof democrat congress must be avoided. People often forget that the power to spend is with congress, not the presidency.
I find it admirable that many conservatives are sticking to their principles and continue to oppose John McCain; even if that means the end result will be a muslim socialist President who will set this country on an irreversible path to the end of the American idea. Please don’t take this as an insult, it’s just a fact. However, I don’t hear any viable plans or ideas as you asked of me from these principled conservatives. Until they do, I don’t particularly care for what they have to say.
You see, I left a country that is on a path to self destruction from the very policies I know for 100% Obama stands for. I guess I’m playing the odds that a McCain presidency won’t go that far.
Respectfully,
JP
Do you have any options in mind for how we might “police and reign in" McCain?
The way I see it, there aren't many. Massive protests and phone calling/letter writing, like we did during the ‘Shamnesty Bill’ attempt was effective. That's the only thing I see working. And only on McCain.
Should Obama get in, with a Dem Senate and House, things will go south in a hurry.
From now until November 4, we need to work our butts off locally, and do all we can to pick up and/or keep as many seats in Congress as possible.
If you have any thoughts, I'd be interested in hearing them.
Obama’s brownshirt tactics against the news media (jailing an ABC reporter) in Denver should awaken even the most comotose 3rd Party trolls to the 2-Party reality of life right now.
Sometimes the truth is painful.
But I don’t want to hear “Secretary of Education Bill Ayers” announced, and I certainly don’t want to hear “Attorney General Bernadine Dohrn” confirmed by a super-majority Democratic Party Senate.
Just this week Obama’s freakin’ National Security Advisor Greg Craig met with German Red Army Faction terrorist Joshka Fischer in Denver...that’s who Obama would nominate for Secretary General of the UN.
Obama’s campaign team and friends have made personal trips to places like Cuba and North Korea...they are active against the Boy Scouts here in the U.S.
Sheesh, McCain has his faults but he’s a welcome alternative to Obama/Biden...especially now that he’s gone with pro-life and pro-oil-drilling (and pro-gun) Governor Palin instead of some limp-wristed, finger-in-the-wind RINO like Romney who wouldn’t know an oil rig if it drilled into his mansion.
Remember all the traitors in the CIA, and other agencies that actively undermined the President while we were war? Thank Clinton. The State Department employees that leaked classified documents? Thank Carter and Clinton. The Next President will appoint at least 2 SC Justices and who knows how many Federal judges that will be there for the rest of their lives. Who would you rather see picking those people, a man we at least know loves his country or someone we know hates it?
Comrade Obama thanks you for your loyalty to the Party!
--not because I think that the candidate will win (numerically, I think it is all but impossible, though God works miracles in his own time). Nor because I think the candidate is ideal (if that were the standard, not a single human being could be elected to any office), but because I will not cross this line in the sand.
Voting is not about crossing lines in the sand. It's simply a secret action logically calculated to favor one outcome over a different outcome. It's not a post on FR or a statement of principle or anything like that.
It is the assumption that with a number of us, our votes were with Mr. McCain to begin with (or were possible to be with him at some time) and that by somehow "witholding" this McCain vote, we deny him something and give the benefit to Obama.
But let me make this clear.
Nothing as far as THIS VOTER is concerned, is being denied or held back from McCain and being awarded to Obama. He never had this vote to begin with.
It will not go to him, it will go to a slate of electors pledged to a Conservative. Neither will it go to Obama, it will go to a slate of electors pledged to a Conservative.
I just wanted to make this clear. We can cause all kinds of blame on people if Obama is elected. It could be blamed on people who voted for McCain in the primaries to set him up, a liberal moderate, as the standard bearer of a fundamentally conservative party.
If Obama wins, it will be because he received votes from enough voters for slates of electors who cast their votes and he won the electoral college. The only people to blame for that in the aftermath will be the Obama voter (and perhaps McCain for running such a poor campaign). There is no blame to go to conservatives.
We must field, and strengthen, a truly Conservative party with a conservative platform and a conservative standard bearer. States are still ballot qualifying. It is not too late to start. To stand back and say it will not fail because it is too small, if one does not join, means that one is a part of the problem, not the solution. My first level of action would be to support strong, tough, Conservatives at the local level; second would be to donate NOTHING to the Republican National Committee, but instead to political causes (PACs) and groups, such as NumbersUSA, Minutemen, etc.; for starters. I would threaten McCain with no financial support if he were to cross conservatism in any fashion or manner. Hit them in the pocketbook to keep them in line. Again, for starters.
Most of us here work.
In all kinds of jobs across the USA.
WHICH ONE OF US WOULD OPPOSE OUR BOSS, AND OPPOSE HIM OR HER REGULARLY, AND EXPECT TO KEEP OUR JOBS?
Mark my word.
President McCain will pull Vice President Palin LEFTWARD.
Vice President Palin will not pull President McCain RIGHTWARD.
Mark my words.
And there folks, you truly have it: We...Are...Screwed.
Come Democrat OR Liberal Republican Administration.
Just ask Juan Hernandez who will be Special Assistant to the President in the Executive Office Building making US immigration policy.
I would support that with my time and money. The hard part is to fight against the Democrat and Republican parties, both of whom will do everything within their powers to stop any effort to form a third party. It also takes a motivated base, and for all the talk, I have my doubts that enough people are willing.
My first level of action would be to support strong, tough, Conservatives at the local level; second would be to donate NOTHING to the Republican National Committee
Like I said, I'm already doing those things. It hasn't been easy after the screwing we got from the PAGOP.
When we started a grass roots effort to run conservative Pat Toomey against Arlen Specter, our own party spared no expense to shut us down.
In fact, the RNC put more time and money into defeating us than it did in supporting Rick Santorum over Bob Casey Jr.
So don't take it personally when I say this, but I've been here in the trenches, getting hammered by the Dems and RINO's alike. And it's easy to be inspired and write bold words at the computer, but until more people get off of their asses and take to the streets, it appears that we too few PA conservatives will continue to fight and get bloodied by the two party/one objective Pennsylvania political power brokers.
I am glad we both eat libs and RINOS for breakfast.
Obama is too dangerous to fall on thew sword for principle.
and Palin in the wings is mighty sweet to this culture war knuckledragger
go to Hillary’s website and look at the Palin as VP thread
you will be shocked...i sure was
it was a lot more complicated than that.
Detente was just a fancy term to say “we’re speaking again”
and Reagan sure did that.
Reagan had Gorby.
Ford had Brehznev...two way different animals
America is headed in a very bad direction. McLamebrain is part of the problem. He is not the solution for our problems. The nasty democrats just bring the troubles on quicker.
it's just common sense
and don't anybody lecture me on immigration.
I got banned from here for over a year for it
and I love Sarah Plain....she is damned near perfect
that is saying a lot coming from a chauvinist like me and I'm not joking...I really don't think most women are as capable as men to lead but I think she might well be, her heart is certainly in the right place
and she is nice looking..
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