Posted on 05/18/2008 4:11:08 AM PDT by nutspea
I do not know if this article suit to be posted here, but I just want to speak something.
Today when I went to NYT and an review attracted my attention, title "fed up with peace" (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/opinion/18kristof.html). This article frightens me. There it covered a monk who claimed that he( Dalai Lama) has been too peaceful over the China, and they should take some actions more violent, especially when he is gone. It depicts that this impatience seems widespread among young Tibetans , and remarks that the Dalai Lama should return Tibet as a spiritual leader and own more rights. Most important, it also observes, that China government should stop sending Han migrants to all Tibetan areas, to preserve their Tibetan character.
After finished reading I think there is a need to leave comments. To prevent wasting the time, I just want to ask the author one question, that is: You call for more rights to Tibet, but did you ever ask yourself such a question that to whom is this freedom belong? To judge the affairs in Tibet one must consult the history instead of vainly murmuring about the present. Don't you think it's weird that in the process of "free Tibet" movement only several monks and oversea persons stand up, instead of masses of Tibetans? After informed yourself with the past history of serfs in Tibet when ruled by these Lamas, could you tell me to whom is this freedom would be given if the Tibet is once again ruled by monks?
About the last remark of migrants, it makes me a little confused that as I can remember American always support culture diversity and communication. One thought in your head and another in mine, but if we make changes there go more than two. The same, the collision of culture will result more thoughts and help both the Han people and Tibetans, isn't it? Does it benifit the Tibetans more by isolating them?
Those men may not really be Tibetan monks. They may have been hired to dress as monks and do bad things.
The world is a very confusing place!!
(Of course, I would not be surprised if they really were monks. Even men of great faith can be pushed to commit acts of violence if they are angry or afraid enough. Tibet's autonomy is being usurped by a very difficult foe, and that can be a very frustrating thing for a strong man to accept. Tibet once had a reputation for having a good military and for being tough fighters. It must be difficult for any Tibetan who is proud of that heritage to stand by and watch as China's rulers take their autonomy away, and they cannot even fight back.)
I never met one that didn’t speak English.
does that just prove that the tradtional cultures of ethinic minority
are kept better in China than in USA?
as we see,Tibet has been merged into CHina for 300 years since Manchu empire,but USA has a hisotry of only 230 years.
That is what YOU stated in your previous post. Are you now changing your position?
well, my prvious post said:
” rural tibetan peasant benefit less from the moderniaztion;tibetan citizens benefit a lot from modernization”
“ the less education of Tibetan is not the fault of Chinese government,just as the less education of black in USA is not the fault of USA’s government”
does it contradict against the fact that Han-Chinese owns most business in Lhasa?
even if Han-Chinese owned the most of business in Lhasa,that is just because Han-Chinese work harder and better than Titetan. it would be nothing with privileges or special favorable treadtement from Chinese government!
the success of Han-chinese in Southeast Asia and USA can prove it.As we know, Han-Chinese are still very rich ,although they are suppressed politically by local aboriginal in southeast Asia.
As we see, that isn't at all true.
History of TibetThe Dzungars invaded Tibet in 1717, deposed and killed Lobzang Khan's pretender to the position of Dalai Lama. This was widely approved. However, they soon began to loot the holy places of Lhasa, which brought a swift response from Emperor Kangxi in 1718; but his military expedition was annihilated by the Dzungars, not far from Lhasa.[85][86]
A second, larger, expedition sent by Emperor Kangxi expelled the Dzungars from Tibet in 1720 and the troops were hailed as liberators. They brought Kelzang Gyatso with them from Kumbum to Lhasa and he was installed as the seventh Dalai Lama in 1721.[87][88]
Following the Qing withdrawal from central Tibet in 1723, there was a period of civil war.
(snip)
China began posting two high commissioners, or ambans, to Lhasa in 1727. Pro-Chinese historians argue that the ambans' presence was an expression of Chinese sovereignty, while those favouring Tibetan claims tend to equate the ambans with ambassadors. "The relationship between Tibet and (Qing) China was that of priest and patron and was not based on the subordination of one to the other," according to the thirteenth Dalai Lama,[93] (The thirteenth Dalai Lama was deposed (1904), reinstated (1908), and deposed (1910) again by the Qing Dynasty government.) [94]
What has the Chinese government done for these citizens of China in the last 300 years? Have you taken a census, built them roads, schools, or hospitals? Do they have electricity or telephones? Can you name one religious leader of the native American Indians that has been exiled from his own people by the United States government?
Are these those phony pictures or the ones from a movie? I don’t believe your pictures. . Free Tibet! Prayers for the people of Tibet
of course you don’t believe it,because you just believe CNN.
BTW,those “phony pictures “ are recorded by street cameras...
Just as western cities, chinese cities now are also full of street cameras...
It contradicts what you said before that it was rural peasants that rioted because they had been left out ecomically. All Tibetans have been left out...in their own country. It is hard to compete with barbarians who kill and torture you just for speaking of the Dalai Lama.
They aren’t rioting or protesting. They aren’t being beaten or shot
need I post the links? do you know “Sand Creek”
do you know how the tribes including Cheyennes,Arapahosa and Sioux vanished?
as for the lucked remain of aboriginal Indian in USA,have they any choice but to “be happy with the arrangements they have with our(USA) government”?
Just as I posted, 300+ years after Tibetan has been mereged into CHina(since Manchus Qin dansty even if controverisial Mongol Yuan were rulled out), a lot of Tibetan still have choice not to speak Mandarin. But less than 200 years after USA was founded, all aboriginal Indian have to speak/write english!
So, which country is extinguish the culture of its ethnic minorities,USA or CHIna?
As we see, that isn’t at all true.
The ariticle you quoted should tell you something.
western people and CHinese has misunderstanding of the relation between tibet and CHinese empire.
western people often think tibetan was a protectorate of Chiese empire.
In fact Chinese empire looked on TIbet,Mongolia as “Inner vassal” and dealt with the affair by a special ministry called “ ministry of inner vassal affairs”.
During Chinese empire era, Korea and Vietnam were the real “protectorates”,because Chinese empire looked on them as “outer vassals” and dealt with the affairs by the ministry of foreign affairs.
Tibetans are being beaten, tortured and killed NOW!
Yes, I read about how they don't have good education available to them to learn Mandarin which is one reason they can't compete in business. If they complain about the unfairness they are harassed and put on a list of dissidents.
It contradicts what you said before that it was rural peasants that rioted because they had been left out ecomically. All Tibetans have been left out...in their own country. It is hard to compete with barbarians who kill and torture you just for speaking of the Dalai Lama.
1, the buniness of Han-Chienese is helpful to improve the life quality of tibetan.
the investment of Han-Chinese in Tibet is the origin of the modernization and jobs in Tibet.
Without the investment from Beijing and Han-immigrants,Lhasa would be a sewer as undeveloped and dirty as those cities in Nepal or India,the life of Tibetan would be much poorer than Now.
2, if all Han-Chinese were to retreat from Tibet, what would happen to Tibet?
just have a look at Zimbabwe now after all white farmer retreated.
3,The Tibetan citizens in Lhasa live very well.
hardly do people here know that the average income of Lhasa citizens is even more than the couterpart of Shanghaiese,due to the subsidy from Beijing.
Tibetans have maintained ethnically separate bloodlines and language for their entire history which indicates that China never had real influence over them. Sometimes China claimed to rule Amdo and Khams and sometimes Lhasa claimed them. But the people of Amdo and Khams never recognized either authority and neither one had the power to do more than illicit token treaties and obeisances from them until the invasion of the 1950s.
You’re a liar. First you make one argument then you change it. Typical CCP propaganda BS.
What has the Chinese government done for these citizens of China in the last 300 years? Have you taken a census, built them roads, schools, or hospitals? Do they have electricity or telephones? Can you name one religious leader of the native American Indians that has been exiled from his own people by the United States government?
1,well,before 1978 or the economy reform, the entire CHina had not good roads,schools.... the backward at that time is popular not only in Tibet ,but alsoin the entire China.
2,After 1978,yes, lot of road,school and other infrastructres has been built in TIbet?
have you heard Qinhai-tibet railway? it is the highest railway in the world and a wonder of engineering.But some of western and monks think “it is only good to Han-Chinese”
We also have built lots of schools in Tibet.but some of them were burnt by mob in the 3.14 riot,because monk resent school and think school is a threaten to their religion.
Forced at the point of a gun. They don't want it.
the investment of Han-Chinese in Tibet is the origin of the modernization and jobs in Tibet.
For the benifit of the CCP. Tibetans don't want it.
Without the investment from Beijing and Han-immigrants,Lhasa would be a sewer as undeveloped and dirty as those cities in Nepal or India,the life of Tibetan would be much poorer than Now.
Tibetans report that Lhasa is far more a sewer now than before the barbarians came.
if all Han-Chinese were to retreat from Tibet, what would happen to Tibet?
They would make their own lives the way they want them. They would have tremendous support from westerners who would help them build their country their own way and it would take far less time to accomplish.
3,The Tibetan citizens in Lhasa live very well.
No, they live in fear and poverty. Far worse poverty than before the barbarians came to kill and enslave them.
Sounds like that weird syntax they use on those Hobbit threads...
Finally some truth. The Chinese are more backward than Tibetans they just hold the power of the gun over them. How can third world barbarians lead anyone out of poverty? You made Beijing a stinking sewer with your ignorant misuse of western technology. The pollution is so bad it crosses the entire Pacific Ocean and fouls the air in the U.S.
Tibetans are being beaten, tortured and killed NOW!
According to most personal experience, the ethinic monorities,including Tibetan, enjoy much more privilidges and better treatment from Chinese government,from free education,additional points for entrance to good universities,the exempt from “one-kid policy”..etc.
for those better treatment,millions of Han-Chinese even disguise themselves as ethnics minorities. In fact, If I have chance, I would like to marry a girl of minority ethinc.than my kid can have chance to “become a minority ethnic” and can get additional points when he apply to university.
So for 270 of the 300 years the Chinese government has been in control, it hasn't done squat for them. On what basis does a government lay claim to land and citizens it can't even provide basic infrastructure for?
2,After 1978,yes, lot of road,school and other infrastructres has been built in TIbet?
How much money per citizen has he Chinese government spend building infrastructure in Tibet compared to what it's spend in China?
have you heard Qinhai-tibet railway? it is the highest railway in the world and a wonder of engineering.But some of western and monks think “it is only good to Han-Chinese”
Why do they say that? Maybe it is.
We also have built lots of schools in Tibet.but some of them were burnt by mob in the 3.14 riot,because monk resent school and think school is a threaten to their religion.
Why do the say that? Does the school try to teach them that their religious beliefs are wrong?
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