[Lunatic Fringe]

*yawn*

Are we fighting the Civil War again?

[Aurelius]

BUMP

[TomServo]

Dixie Ping!

[JohnGalt]

Ping.

[Darheel]

Land-O-Lincoln ping

First Republican President ping

[conservativemusician]

Didn't the Civil War end some time ago?

[stainlessbanner]

Good Follow Discussion from the recent Jeff Davis threads:

• A Truly Remarkable Man
• The Jefferson Davis Funeral Train Story

[Zavien Doombringer]

Moving on...

[ought-six]

Note the following comments about Union that were made back in the 19th century by non-Southerners:

"Union depends for its continuance on the free consent and will of the sovereign people of each state, and when that consent and will is withdrawn on either part, their Union is gone. A state coerced to remain in the Union is a subject province and can never be aq co-equal member of the American Union." 1860, newspaper editorial from Maine.

"The Union was formed by voluntary agreement of the States; and in uniting together they have not forfeited their nationality....If one of the states chooses to withdraw from the compact...the Federal Government woul dhave no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right." de Tocqueville, in DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA. de Tocqueville, although a Frenchman, was considered to be one of the foremost experts on American government.

I mention these simply because there are posters on this site who admantly hold the position that there was nothing voluntary about being in the Union, and that NO state ever had a right to secede.

[Capriole]

Grand Old Partisan! Walt! You're on, boys--post something bitter, irrational, and hate-filled to contribute to the conversation.

[LibKill]

I'm Texan. Some of my ancestors fought for the South.

That said, I consider the issue closed.

Southern Culture is just fine by me, but re-fighting the late unpleasantness is getting to be a waste of bandwith.

[Non-Sequitur]

Had the federal government had any possible chance to convict Davis and therefore declare secession unconstitutional they would have done so in a New York minute.

But the Supreme Court did declare secession as practiced by the southern states unconstitutional in 1869? Didn't Mr. Benson do any research in this?

[southland]

I have read "The South Under Siege" and found it to be a very excellent book. I recommend it to all people to learn what transpires in the United States and why things are as the are now in the South.

[rcofdayton]

Every state in the Articles of Confederation seceded from that Confederation when they ratified the Constitution. So it was ok to secede from the Confederation but not the new government?

[D1X1E]

I've considered the War in this way. An abused wife, who is no angel herself, chooses to leave her abusive husband. The abusive husband, being stronger than the wife, and after inflicting grievious injury, forces her to return home to continued abuse.

[sheltonmac]

Thanks for posting that excellent article. The anti-secession crowd have yet to provide an adequate answer to the question posed. If secession was illegal and unconstitutional, then the case against Davis--not to mention the entire Confederate leadership--would have been a slam-dunk.

[bert]

We hear a lot about secession, but what about the opposite.

Can a state be purged? What mechanism exists to eliminate a state from the union? Are we stuck with the NE states for ever?

[Tribune7]

It probably wasn't illegal. But the South did fire on Fort Sumter, and in their infinite wisdom, manage to start a war.

[Aurelius]

FYI

[mdmathis6]

The war was fought so that 50-80 years later there would be a economic and military power house to counter balance the Isms of Europe(Nazism, communism). (and to help Israel back into being). Only a strong federal union with a large population of morally directed people could be that buffer between a semblance of international order and total chaos and barbarity!
It was also about freedom for blacks sure enough but more than that, it was God, seeing beyond the page of time. Had the United States remained divided, and had everything else remained the same in Europe(the same trends towards philosophical and scientific secularism), history would have been decidedly different. There would be no Jews or Christians left alive, and the world early would be brutally maimed by the competing isms; the competing Isms would have been the most barbaric(like choosing caustic poison or slow painful garroting as you form of death) in terms of their governments and there would be no freedoms. Nuclear suicide would have been the result. Look at what the Civil War really saved us from(or at least forestalled)and you begin to see where God is truly active in the affairs of man. Look at the big picture of the resulting history after the war and you see God still on his throne.("man proposes but God disposes...")

Another example...what end of trouble would the Isrealites have had if the flower of Egyptian military might and Pharoah(even had they escaped to the promised Land)had not been destroyed in the sea. It would be about 700 years before EGYPT WOULD BE A THREAT AGAIN but every-one was afraid of the Babylonians by then!

What great wonders is God cooking up for the future starting with trends in our own era...hmmmm?