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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: All
There are no check // balances for liberalism // evolution . . . open throttle - - - runaway train // spin ! ! !
3,861 posted on 01/08/2003 1:39:46 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Alamo-Girl
I haven't stopped asking questions. In fact I can think of the perfect class to teach ID in. It would be called the history of science. This is the place to unload all the arguments.

I have no respect for credentials per se, but I do look at track records. The computer scientists of 1966 fully expected to have artificial intelligence well in hand by 2001. So much for their assessment of what can and cannot be done.

The only strong argument for ID is statistical. You cannot, in physics, say that something cannot happen, only that it is extremely improbable.

But the assertion of improbability always ignores selection.

3,862 posted on 01/08/2003 1:39:57 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Unless it's a democrat about to raise taxes.

Hahahahahahahaha! Still, one thinks even a tax-hiking democrat would not use the explicit language of Christian mutual duty.

3,863 posted on 01/08/2003 1:42:11 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Thank you for your post!

I absolutely agree with you - however, the evolutionists will define inception right off the table because the theory of evolution excludes it.

But that really has nothing to do with testing for intelligent design by looking for algorithm at inception. They are two separate issues, but so few understand. Sigh...

3,864 posted on 01/08/2003 1:42:36 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: music_code
Honest scientists will tell you that the more we come to know, the more we realize how much there is that we don't know.

There is always more to discover. In the meantime, our approximations of reality are continually improving.

But there is much evidence that points to creation, not a lack of such evidence.

Ferinstance?

Escapist nonsense. Do you look both ways before you cross the street?

The preceding was written tongue in cheek, for the humor impaired...

3,865 posted on 01/08/2003 1:44:39 PM PST by Condorman (A clever tagline is a good excuse for posting a message.)
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To: js1138
Thank you for your post!

My poor dog is crossing his paws, so I'll have to make this short. But I wanted to address this:

The computer scientists of 1966 fully expected to have artificial intelligence well in hand by 2001. So much for their assessment of what can and cannot be done.

Penrose (Emperor's New Mind) believes it can never be accomplished to the degree hoped. However, we do have an A.I. expert on the forum, tortoise, who might have more information for you if you are interested.

Kudos to you for never stopping to ask questions!!!

3,866 posted on 01/08/2003 1:47:36 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Condorman
cm...

approximations

FC...

bet the farm on THAT ! ! !
3,867 posted on 01/08/2003 1:48:15 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Aric2000
BUT, this does not mean that Creationism should be taught in science class. ;)

What is wrong with a class on bible in a high school - for students who want to take it? How is this a violation of the Constitution - someone please point me to the clause in the Constitution (don't point me to a liberal marxist judge) where it says this is not allowed. It is contrary to historical precedent. The reason all of this has happened is because the government got into the education business and public schools became govt. schools. The Constitution does not allow for the State to be the educator. Where does it say that is a function of the Federal Govt. in the Constitution? Because they delved where they do not belong, they then said any religion in schools falls under "separation of church and state" with the schools being an extension of the state.

3,868 posted on 01/08/2003 1:48:29 PM PST by exmarine
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To: Condorman
Main Entry: ap·prox·i·ma·tion
Pronunciation: &-"präk-s&-'mA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the act or process of drawing together
2 : the quality or state of being close or near < an approximation to the truth > < an approximation of justice >
3 : something that is approximate; especially : a mathematical quantity that is close in value to but not the same as a desired quantity
- ap·prox·i·ma·tive /-'präk-s&-"mA-tiv/ adjective
3,869 posted on 01/08/2003 1:50:23 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: js1138; betty boop
BB: If I found any fossils at all, there would be no way for me to tell whether they were hominids or not.

JS: I think you underrate the state of science in Darwin's time. Biology and geology were both established on sound footings before Darwin began his voyage.

Leonardo da Vinci weighed in on fossilized shellfish back around 1500 when he disputed the idea of a Biblical Flood.

3,870 posted on 01/08/2003 1:50:46 PM PST by Condorman (A stolen tagline is still a tagline.)
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To: Condorman
for the humor impaired...

That reminds me... The Muslims have already attacked us with biological weapons -- the retro virus. It's vede series.

3,871 posted on 01/08/2003 1:52:08 PM PST by js1138
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Of course it does, but god cannot be used for the causation because god cannot be proven nor disproven to exist.

When you can PROVE scientifically the existence of god, then we will talk about god being used in science, although if god is PROVEN, then there will be no need for science because then god will give us the answers that we seek.

The only way to prove that god exists is to get him/her/it to come down to earth, say "I did this" and then it will be proven that he/she/it exists. In the meantime, god cannot be used as a causation because he/she/it, cannot be proven to exist.

It is called curcular reasoning, and has NO place in REAL science.

To say "I don't understand how this could have happened" and then to say, "since I don't understand, then god did it" is NOT scientific, it is a copout, a lazy mans way out of a dilemma that he does not have the knowledge to get out of. So, instead of experimenting and working to find out the causation, he says goddidit, and he doesn't have to work on it anymore.

This is ID, since we don't understand the full complexities of how life evolves, nor how it got so complicated, though there are some EXCELLENT scientific theories, creationists and ID'rs say, GODDIDIT, evolutionists, say, we just do not understand it fully yet, but we will.

One stops the study, GODDIDIT, the other makes the study continue, we do not understand, YET, but let's find out!!

The Theory of Evolution is a threat to the literal meaning of the story of genisis, but when not looked at literally, it fits quite nicely. Alamo Girl has it pretty well worked out in her mind.

She uses god a lot in her theories, therefore it is philisophical and religious, not science, but still interesting all the same.

Evolution as scientific theory, SHOULD be taught in science classes. Creatinism and ID should NOT be taught in a science class, because they are NOT scientific. Want to teach them in a philosophy class or a religious class, fine, be my guest. BUT NOT IN SCIENCE CLASS.

Also, a disclaimer is not only silly, it is unnecessary. THe definition of a THEORY should be taught at the beginning of ALL science classes. Without questions, science would come to a halt.

I welcome anyone to question the Theory of Evolution through the scientific process, but to say that GODDIDIT and then argue that it is science is just silly.

Because GODDIDIT is religion, the causation cannot be proven, therefore it is NOT science.
3,872 posted on 01/08/2003 1:53:05 PM PST by Aric2000 (The Theory of Evolution is Science, ID and Creationism are Religious, Any Questions?)
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To: exmarine
Here come the zombie mantras . . . knee jerks - - - rigor mophisis // evoolootion!

Fire torch rally // parades . . . book burners too ! ! !
3,873 posted on 01/08/2003 1:53:25 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: js1138
At this rate we'll top 4000 posts by this evening.
3,874 posted on 01/08/2003 1:53:40 PM PST by Junior (Longest crevo thread ever)
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To: Alamo-Girl
A.I. expert

Sounds like military intelligence.

3,875 posted on 01/08/2003 1:54:46 PM PST by js1138
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To: Condorman
Euthyphro dilemma

Socrates was a Greek pagan as were all of the Greek philosophers. Plato had some things right - ideals do exist - problem was the greek gods were not big enough to be the source of the ideals. So, using Greek philosophy as your proof God's moral precepts are arbitrary doesn't work. It may have been arbitrary for the Greek gods, but not the REAL God. The Christian God is much bigger than any of the Greek gods - their gods were limited in their power and authority.

Your problem goes deeper than this, however. If morals are arbitrary, then there is no right and wrong, except that which man states as his personal preference (or societal preference). On this basis, relativism is your only refuge. If relativism is your only refuge, you are in big trouble because moral relativism is logically and practically indefensible. I can e-mail you a sound refutation for moral relativism if you like.

3,876 posted on 01/08/2003 1:56:57 PM PST by exmarine
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To: Junior
open throttle . . . full evolution // speed ahead - - - bridge(TRUTH) out(crash) ! ! !
3,877 posted on 01/08/2003 1:57:00 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Here come the zombie mantras . . . knee jerks - - - rigor mophisis // evoolootion!

Fire torch rally // parades . . . book BANNER // burners too ! ! !


3,878 posted on 01/08/2003 1:58:11 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Junior
At this rate we'll top 4000 posts by this evening.

Things go better without gore. Has anyone notice how civil things are? Lots of disagreement, but generally on point?

3,879 posted on 01/08/2003 1:58:30 PM PST by js1138
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To: exmarine
What is wrong with a class on bible in a high school - for students who want to take it? How is this a violation of the Constitution - someone please point me to the clause in the Constitution (don't point me to a liberal marxist judge) where it says this is not allowed. It is contrary to historical precedent. The reason all of this has happened is because the government got into the education business and public schools became govt. schools. The Constitution does not allow for the State to be the educator. Where does it say that is a function of the Federal Govt. in the Constitution? Because they delved where they do not belong, they then said any religion in schools falls under "separation of church and state" with the schools being an extension of the state.

Absolutely NOTHING, I agree with you, please see my statement again. I don't have a problem with a voluntary bible class in public schools, I never said that I did.

This is what I said, please see the part in bold.

BUT, this does not mean that Creationism should be taught in science class. ;)
3,880 posted on 01/08/2003 1:59:03 PM PST by Aric2000 (The Theory of Evolution is Science, ID and Creationism are Religious, Any Questions?)
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