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1 posted on 12/08/2002 4:40:39 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: PatrickHenry; abcraghead; A Vast RightWing Conspirator; MistyCA; Arthur Wildfire! March; ...
Please post any additional ideas that you have thinking they will work in YOUR local communities.
2 posted on 12/08/2002 4:43:14 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
Thanks for the ping. And thanks for the jokes earlier! I am still LMAO!!!!! :)
6 posted on 12/08/2002 6:32:44 PM PST by MistyCA
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To: B4Ranch
thanks for the heads-up. I'm pondering (can you smell the smoke?)
7 posted on 12/08/2002 6:34:51 PM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: B4Ranch
We need a big lobby groupe (NRA or larger)with a loud voice so congress will hear us.
9 posted on 12/08/2002 6:55:26 PM PST by dalebert
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To: B4Ranch
We need a big lobby group (NRA or larger)with a loud voice so congress will hear us.
10 posted on 12/08/2002 6:55:35 PM PST by dalebert
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To: B4Ranch
Thanks for putting me on your ping list, and thank you for posting all of this incredible and factual information! I have "bitched" constantly, about these same issues... I think I have sparked some responses lately, and others are questioning it too!!! Best wishes, and thanks again.
Terri
12 posted on 12/08/2002 7:53:43 PM PST by Terridan
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To: B4Ranch
I still think supporting the border militias that we hear about is a good step as well.
13 posted on 12/08/2002 7:57:53 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: B4Ranch
Does any know of a Sheriff who is unsatisfied with the Illegal alien situation in his/her County. I'm looking for someone, preferably in a Western State who is open to new ideas. Someone who will speak with common folks like myself and keep an open mind to a new radical, non-violent program. Someone who has never had a budget large enough to do what he needed to do. Someone with enough self worth to tolerate being ostracized in the press.
14 posted on 12/08/2002 9:14:19 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch
None of these programs came solely from the Democrats, nor were they solely supported by Democrats? More and more Republicans are walking to the left of center when it comes to these "undocumented migrants".

This is why I believe any REAL change in our immigration policies is going to come from 3rd parties. It certainly won't happen in the Republicrat Party. That party was married with K-Street money many years ago.

The bums currently in power have to be removed from power before anything constructive can be done. What that will take I have no idea. But something will come along. I don't think America is going to go quietly into the night.

17 posted on 12/08/2002 10:32:20 PM PST by WRhine
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To: B4Ranch
I am not nearly as worried about this topic as many posting here, and I have some different viewpoints on immigration. However, I will state that Illegal Immigration is not something I favor, so here are my responses to the above ideas, and a few options to them:

1. An immediate moratorium on immigration waivers and new applications in the pipeline until major changes are made and the system re-vamped. (Intelligent)

Not going to happen.

2. Dismantle the welfare state, place restrictions on requirements to the Emergency Room srevices [sic] at our hospitals. (Necessary)

On first point, a hearty yes. On second point -- does that mean non-citizens would not get ER service? I trust it doesn't, because that would be, well, rather inhuman.

3. Cut off welfae [sic] payments to immigrants who haven't worked a ceartin [sic] amount of quaters [sic] and paid into the tax system. (Clever variation)

To legal immigrants? Hmm... perhaps. I can see both sides of this coin, and I agree, it is a clever idea, as it provides an incentive to work.

4. Pass law that landlords must check for documents before renting or selling , most now check credit, employment, etc. (Thoughtful)

No thanks. A.) There are plenty of shady landlords who'd evade the requirement. B.) There are too many landlords, who will check them to make sure they are enforcing this? C.) I don't like turning landlords into unpaid civil servants, (or paid ones either, for that matter.)

5. Implement substantial fines (and revocation of tax incentives, if applicable) for employers who don't take reasonable steps to ensure they are hiring citizens. (Current unenforced law)

I could jump on board this one.

6. Place a bounty on each illegal (identified, turned in, and captured, not a " wanted dead or alive") (I like it)

Um.... no thanks. Just what we need, bounty hunters poking through the latin quarter of every town? Ick, no thanks. We don't need scummy people "enforcing" our laws to their own profit. While not everyone who did this would be scummy, face it, it appeals to desperate people who want to make quick money. They won't work to find illegals the hard way, they'll just try to find the easiest mark to nail.

Alternate: Bounty on employers who hire illegals. More likely to attract harder working individuals, including legit bounty hunters and PIs, former police officers, and etc.... More effective and efficient. After all 90% of illegals are here for one of two reasons -- to work, or to mooch. So you find them at the trough or the workplace.

7. Implement substantial fines (and revocation of tax incentives, if applicable) for employers who don't take reasonable steps to ensure they are hiring citizens. (I love it)

This is the same as #5. This is the same as #5.

Sorry couldn't help myself.

8. March on Washington. (Can be expensive for anyone who doesn't live in the area.)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. This is what liberals and whackos do. Isn't working for them, isn't going to work for us. No thanks.

9. Run for a state senate seat or state assembly seat. Can be done rather easily. yes, winning will take a lot of work but not a whole lot of money

Hear that sound? That's me laughing. It's a lot harder than it seems. You know why you need pro politicians like we have now? Because when normal people end up up there they end up getting screwed in the first 5 minutes. Politics is a serious business. The odds of a neophyte getting elected on a one issue platform like immigration are about 900 to 1.

10. Change the constitution so that kids born to illegal are not automatically citizens. (Good Luck)

Nope, not gonna happen, and I don't really want it to, but that is just me I guess.

11. In the federal election to be held on the first Tuesday of February, 2005, no person shall be allowed to vote unless they have proved their U.S. citizenship by providing an American passport, birth certificate, or naturalization papers to the registrar. (Good idea)

I agree. Immigrants, illegal or otherwise, should not be able to vote. However, you had better expand that US Citizenship proof to something more than that list. My Grandfather was born in the 1920s, and he had none of those documents. He was born in OK, where birth registry was not required until the later 1930s.

One important thing: Fact is, Illegals perform many necessary functions within the economy, such as agricultural work. And there are too many to ever deport. Some way of legalizing and documenting those who are essential to the economy, and who are neither welfare mooches or criminals -- other than entry and presence, I mean killers & theives here -- is going to be required. There needs to be a functioning guest worker program for agriculture, because I can tell you this, you will never get the "naturalized" populace back in the fields again. Amnesty may not be the best route, I agree. But I haven't heard anyone else bring up a better idea for what to do about the illegal populations who are not otherwise a burden, except to "deport them", which is the most unworkable of ideas....

Remember the Laffer Curve? It's a basic tennent of conservative tax policy. If taxes are too high, compliance is almost 10%, because people evade it. If Taxes are low enough, revenue jumps because compliance approaches 90%+, since it is too much work to bother cheating.

Apply this to illegal immigration. If a system of immigration and a system for guest workers is easy enough to use, (rather than being punitive,) then people will not run around it, because there will be no incentive.

Another idea I don't see here: no driver's liscences for immigrants who cannot prove legal status.

The remainder of your points, I find a number of faults with, on various fronts. Making a populist move that swamps police chiefs and city councils and such will accomplish nothing, except to raise enough ruckus to make the local news program as being "the Immigration hotheads who showed up at City Hall today. And for tomorrows story, the Lesbian Rights Acitivist march on City Hall...." Marches on city halls are a waste of good time.

The key is employers, and state legislatures. No jobs with legal entry = no more illegal entry problem. Note that this does not mean no immigrants working the 7-11 or the strawberry fields; rather, it means, no illegal immigrants working in those places.

18 posted on 12/08/2002 11:26:09 PM PST by abcraghead
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To: B4Ranch
Thanks for the ping! BTTT.

Just to let you know, in NYC, no city employee is allowed to report and illegal alien to the INS.
20 posted on 12/09/2002 6:30:45 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: B4Ranch
Brother ... keep it up. You are doing yoeman's work here IMHO.

ARM THE PEOPLE

38 posted on 12/10/2002 7:03:45 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: B4Ranch
This item needs further discussion and action groups need to use this forum as a initiation point. I.e. how will local action groups get off the ground? Use Free Republic as a way to direct people to your local action group website etc. Don't propose illegal activity, but we should investigate whether certain actions are legal or have a legal basis. The ongoing dialogue should be posted here so that everyone can benefit.
40 posted on 12/10/2002 7:22:59 AM PST by Ol'Grey Head
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To: B4Ranch
Good ideas, but I have the sinking feeling that our only hope is if we can come to critical mass with these type folks:
Ranch Rescue
American Patrol
Tombstone Tumbleweed

Another viable option is to start filing lawsuits against local, state, and federal government like this org did:
California Coalition for Immigration Reform

Other active and somewhat effective organizations:
Federation for American Immigration Reform (largest lobbying group)
Americans for Immigration Control
Other links

65 posted on 12/12/2002 7:24:52 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: B4Ranch
Bttt
71 posted on 12/16/2002 6:38:31 AM PST by firewalk
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