TALE OF TWO LAWERS (Feldmand vs. Dusek) DEFEATED and DECIETFUL.(VD's SKATE FREE TO SWING AGAIN)

Yahoo ^ | August 22, 2002 | Yahoo

[dread78645]

Second, I don't recall a 21 theorem ?

Dusek's closing argument : cheating at 21 ( blackjack ?).

[Eva]

Your description of nude beaches sounds alot like others that I have heard. I don't agree. I've been dragged to some of these places and they give me the creeps. I found that most of the participants were both voyeuristic and exhibitionist, not to mention, mostly gay. There was alot of prancing and swaying hips. I fully expected some of the men to be wearing tassels like the ones women strippers wear and swing around. Then couples would pair up and disappear into the canyons. I thought it was so gross that I was afraid to walk barefoot (AIDS was very big then and not much was known about it). My husband did observe a strange man trying to pick up a young girl while her parents swam.

The author of the articles that I was referring to was a former writer for one of the nudist club magazines and had visited alot of the clubs all over the country. She felt the same way about it that I do, that the men who frequent these places like the feeling of domination of women because most women are intimidated by the scene. She also said that the men all claim that no one cares what you look like, yet they are the same ones with the Playboy subscriptions.

[TheSpottedOwl]

There is a difference in the DSM IV...they now call psychopathy "antisocial personality disorder". I think that's a mistake. It tones down the dangers of these people (this has nothing to do with anyone here).

Yeti the difference between psychologists and psychiatrists is that a psychiatrist has a degree in medicine, while a psychologist doesn't. That's it. For something really interesting do a Google search on Sam Vaknin. You'll learn all about a disorder called "narcissism". I included it when I pasted the info the other night. So much has been covered up about the Dam Vans that I can't say for sure whether any of this applies to them, just thought you all might be interested in it :)

[TheSpottedOwl]

Thanks, just trying to shed some kind of light here...

[Lauratealeaf]

Isn't it interesting that Kim knows the sex of the moderator? Hmmmmmmm

I noticed that too.

[I. Ben Hurt]

Uhhhh, how big was that water hose?

Oh SpottedOwl, that's way more information than we NEED to know.

[fussybutt]

People of the lie was written by M Scott Peck MD
pg 69 "The central defect of the evil is not the sin but the refusal to acknowledge it."

pg 73 "A predominant characteristic of the behavior that I call evil is scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves above reproach, they must lash out at anyone who does reproach them. They sacrifice others to preserve the self-image of perfection"

Also by the same author:

The Road Less Traveled
Meditations From The Road Less Traveled
Exploring The Road Less Traveled
Further Along The Road Less Traveled

In my opinion, these are all excellent books that offer wisdom about good and evil. Such wisdom is rarely found on these threads although evil has raised it's ugly head in these flame wars. With FresnoDa banned, the fun, humor and much of the thoroughly researched information was banned also.

Although I don't post very much, I used to very much enjoy lurking on these threads. Now I regret the donation for my membership.

I also have been slandered by the VD defenders for revealing that I used to work with abused children. My statement that I had more than 150 children come through the doors of my house was answered with; "That was over 150 children to many." That was from someone that does not know me and has no concept of my morals, religion, education or philosophy.

The very idea that the environment a child lives in does not effect the mental health and safety of a child; particularly one that involves excessive drinking, drug use and immoral or perverse sexual behavior is ludicrous. It is my opinion that anyone that says otherwise is just as ludicrous.

For those that have been kind enough to respond to my posts with patience and kindness, I thank you. For those that wish to argue with me, defame me, or post any more lunacy to me, you are not worth my time and effort to respond.

[calawah98]

You are not worth my time to respond

I just wish we could get it across the best thing to do with the disruptors is to just ignore them, not post to them, or any thing else.

When a disruptor posts, to me they become invisible, they are just not there, so I just ignore them.

And I also think it was a crying shame that Fresno got banned, where did the warning that he should have gotten, but no just a flat out banned. What was so terrible about his joke? I certainly have read things that should have been banned but were'nt and they are still here with their snide remarks and out of control fingers on the key board.

Their joy in life is to get some one ticked off, so they will reply and get banned. What a sad life they must be living.

[fussybutt]

If everyone would agree to ignore the disrupters, just maybe they would go to a different thread and pick on each other.

Maybe better yet, we should band together and donate money to Fresno to start a different web site altogether. Perhaps if he were in charge we could actually have the freedom to have humour with being informed. The harrassment of these uninformed disrupters and the unfairness of the good people that have been banned because of them are just short of murdering this website. It is now far from being a "Free Republic".

[bvw]

Is this the same DSM that defines boyhood as ADHD or ADD, and says that homosexuality is AOK, but homophobia is worse'n being a psychopath?

It's not exactly science anyomore, or maybe ne'er was. It is political diagnosis.

[The Other Harry]

Your description of nude beaches sounds alot like others that I have heard. I don't agree. I've been dragged to some of these places and they give me the creeps. I found that most of the participants were both voyeuristic and exhibitionist, not to mention, mostly gay. There was alot of prancing and swaying hips. I fully expected some of the men to be wearing tassels like the ones women strippers wear and swing around. Then couples would pair up and disappear into the canyons...

I'm snipping in the interest of brevity, but I will reply to your entire message.

All I can tell you, is that you and I have had very different experiences with beaches. The description you gave above would apply much more accurately to the "main" beach where I used to live than to the nekkid beach my GF and I used to go.

The folks who went to the nude beach were mostly kind of aging hippie types. The were some gay couples, but nobody was jumping around with tassels or showing off their bodies -- their bodies usually weren't all that great to begin with. The people who wanted to show off their bodies were the ones who put on the thong-backs and the tiny little tops and the speedos that call attention to everything that's underneath, and then they bought a bunch or beer and went to the main beach to be looked at and admired.

As far as cleanliness goes, there was no comparison. At the end of any given day, the main beach would be an absolute trash heap. On the nekkid beach, you'd be hard pressed to find so much as a discarded gum wrapper. That was one of the nice things about it.

There was probably some voyeurism. I won't deny that I gave an extra look to a pretty girl who walked by. But that was no different than what people do at any beach.

One important difference that I neglected to mention in my original post which I think is relevant to the question of perverts and child molesters, is that you rarely ever saw any adolescents at the nekkid beach (fully-dressed, 19 year old boys excepted). For the most part, the people who went there were age 30 and above. There were some little kids, but as they grow older and their bodies start developing, my impression is that they tend to get modest and don't want to go there.

For this reason, it was certainly no farm for a child molestor. You might see a toddler or two running around in the surf or playing the sand with no clothes on, but there really weren't all that many of those. And, like I said before, anyone who tried to grab one would have been instantly set upon by other people. Those things just simply didn't happen. It wasn't at all like that.

I am rather curious whether the beaches you went to were pay-to-enter or totally "free". There were a couple free beaches up the road from us that didn't have such a great reputation. We tried them out a couple times, and we didn't especially like them.

The main problem was the stupid punks who would go there and get drunk and want to look. I can also recall seeing one couple having sex behind some logs. This was more like the beaches you describe.

The pay-to-enter beach was much different. It was clean, and there was virtually no nonsense whatsoever.

Still, between the three, the worst by far was the main beach. That was the cesspool of sexuality, drugs, filth, and so on. The pay-to-enter nekkid beach was a great relief from that.

[VRWC_minion]

Dusek used the cheating example at playing cards to describe that evidence is looked at in its entirety and not picked at individually like those here have done which led them to erroneous conclusions. Dusek's example was apparently effective.

I still don't see how I was wrong.

[Freedom2specul8]

"I also have been slandered by the VD defenders for revealing that I used to work with abused children"


That's terrible...I've worked in a domestic violence shelter for a short period of time. It was not fun nor was it easy. While they brought their kids with them, I can't imagine working with abused kids on a daily basis. People that do it for a living are extra special and are tough.

[cyncooper]

I also have been slandered by the VD defenders for revealing that I used to work with abused children.

I agreed to stay off these threads as long as my name wasn't mentioned. Of course it has not been, but I really must respond to this.

First, could you please produce the post you refer to?

I do not think it is fair to cite one post from someone--a post you have not produced so we can all see it--and then to paint *all* people who post here that think Westerfield is the murderer (not "VD defenders") as holding those sentiments regarding your work with children.

[Ditter]

You have put both camps neatly in their places; Westerfield supporters GOOD; Van Dam supporters BAD. But you seem to have left me out even tho the post was directed to me.

I have gone out of my way to say that I find the Van Dam's & Westerfield both guilty. The Van Dams are evil disgusting people & their lifestyle led to their daughters death IMHO. Westerfield had Danielle's DNA on his jacket & her hairs in his MH. Why did the man down the street have her DNA & hairs if he wasn't involved in her death? It doesn't help that W tried to get into the swinging group & was rejected, he hung out at Dad's, he collected porn, even kiddie porn. If I am murderd & my neighbor has my DNA on his clothes & my hairs in his drain I hope they hang the SOB because he did it.

[Freedom2specul8]

I bet it was on a different forum, but one never knows. BTW, I never understood the vd defender label anyway. I've yet to see anyone say their lifestyle was good enough to defend. (????)

[Freedom2specul8]

Now there have been people, myself included that believes their grief was real. Is that defending them?

[cyncooper]

I've yet to see anyone say their lifestyle was good enough to defend. (????)

In fact I have said outright that I find the behavior they engaged in repulsive.

Now there have been people, myself included that believes their grief was real. Is that defending them?

Yes, I would say that *some* here would say that is "defending" them. I do not agree that saying their grief is real translates into condoning their other behavior.

[Ditter]

I just went back through fussybutts post & the person that she was refering to was Greg Weston. Greg was the only person that said anything to her, infact most of her post were not replied to by anyone.

[Freedom2specul8]

Thank you. I'm starting to wonder if we're all on the same "page" or not.