800 babies buried in septic tank at Irish home for unmarried mothers

You can’t refute facts

No, that would be you, for you have not refuted anything I just recently said, or made mention of weeks ago.

Besides...there was nothing in that pdf which I had not seen previous to your posting that thread. There was nothing new there, for it was just a long-winded rehashing of things which had been much discussed elsewhere. The portions of it in regard to the Magdalena laundries are just some much empty assertion which is well refuted elsewhere, far beyond the "Philomena" story/dramatization, which story still carried much basic truth, in that significant numbers of babies and toddlers were indeed adopted out, many to the United States. There ARE records of that..and there was money involved, I just don't know how much...

For the other portions which could "be refuted" -- I had already done THAT previous to the publication of that "Catholic League", Donahue diatribe which you linked to.

How many sentences was in that thing, anyway?

Your cohort here thinks he can limit myself to 5 -- but I'm expected to have to deal with what -- 500?

Get over yourselves. No one here owes you boys a thing.

My motivation for entering into this discussion in the first place, was the over-reaction on the part of yourself and others. Going on the warpath, mixing various slanders in generously with all the rest of your own commentary--- while ignoring anything and everything that didn't fit your own preferred narrative has not be conducive to rational discussion.

I am hoping to clear the air over all this stuff in (partial) review of what can be known, compared to what has been otherwise said about this case.

Things have gotten a bit complicated with all the various charges being so generously tossed around concerning a limited set of actual facts (as opposed to assertion or assumptions) then proceeding from there to the personally slanderous editorialized comments (such as the ones which you have been indulging yourself in) of yet further allegation.

Congratulations. You and verga have turned a "crappy" story into a real FR stinkfest.

Both of you guys should be banned from this site, for you have both proven yourselves incorrigible.

I do know of a little bit more concerning this case further than what has been discussed on FR ...and I have just stumbled upon yet another web-page which appears to supply answers to questions I have been having.

That page goes into detail showing how old cesspit structures (more than one!) were on the property, dating back to the workhouse era are the most likely answer to part of the riddle. Weeks ago I had including speculation...that we did not then know how many cesspits were there from the beginning of the facility (1846) and how many may have become disused, and yet how many MORE other on-site sewage pits there may have been before the facility was eventually connected to local sewerage.

There is some evidence there was yet another septic tank built some short years before the nuns took over the property, leaving nine separate 'vaulted' underground cesspit tanks from previous eras at that time disused.

Being that back in those days, in Ireland, human dung itself had some monetary value for use as fertilizer...it is not impossible to consider those old sewage structures could have been cleaned out -- even before the Bon Secour nuns got there. That would make the usage of the structures innocent enough, diminishing there be any particular scandal for those structures being used as burial crypt.

From on-line photos taken from the architectural plans/drawings the cesspit structures dating from the original era (mid-1840's) do resemble arched burial vaults. If these had fallen into disuse and were not being used as "septic tank" except for in the past, and were possible emptied of human waste in years previous to the nuns being there, once all the information is properly digested, then the use as burial crypt being done as a practicality, absolves the nuns of any malfeasance or particular guilt for this aspect of the overall story.

Here's one photo of the Tuam workhouse cesspit detail, taken from actual (and historical) architectural drawings;

Would you care for links to yet more information?

All that is required of you is to stop the insults, and actually address what I have been trying to say to you for WEEKS, but which you have seemingly yet to examine, giving myself and others in reply nothing much more than one insult after another.

“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

Your own words judge you, and verga too,, even more harshly...

When are either of you going to be reasonable about all this, instead of milking it for all it's worth as platform to hurl insult and epithet at people around here?

If that's all you guys are about, then you are not worthy to call yourselves "freepers".

OR-- you could repent, quit being such rude jackasses about things, and actually examine evidences which you likely have not yet seen, and consider possibilities beyond your own knee-jerk, emotional reactions which you then follow with personal attack and insults towards others with.

Maybe you could point out where I lied anywhere in this thread? You can't.

The entire post was a lie and you couldn't wait to post it. When NKP posted refutation after refutation, you and metmom refused to admit your error, instead you both dug your heels in deeper.

Did you even bother to look at the information from the Catholic League?

You were shown evidence that the story had been changed to make everything appear worse, and you didn't back down.

Lets put it straight out; Anything that paints the Catholic Church in the slightest bad light you both will jump on and push to the forefront.

Both of you have said that you distrust the media, but you leave the fact that you will accept with out the slightest bit of contention ANYTHING they say against the Catholic Church ANYTHING.

I would ask you to prove me wrong but every one knows you can't.

Neither of you has ever been mistaken for a Christian, much less a Christian, and you never will be.

There you go again...hogging all the limelight. :^’)

When are either of you going to be reasonable about all this, instead of milking it for all it's worth as platform to hurl insult and epithet at people around here?

Is it reasonable to send someone a freep mail threatening them?

If that's all you guys are about, then you are not worthy to call yourselves "freepers".

Are you worthy of being called a "freeper" If you send a freepmail saying you are going to do someone bodily harm?

OR-- you could repent, quit being such rude jackasses about things, and actually examine evidences which you likely have not yet seen, and consider possibilities beyond your own knee-jerk, emotional reactions which you then follow with personal attack and insults towards others with.

Do you think someone that sends a threatening freepmail should repent? Does that make them a rude jackass? Is sending them that type a freepmail a knee-jerk, emotional reaction? Should the person that receives such a freepmail consider it a personal attack or insult?

Just a couple of questions I have since you seem to know so much about what it takes to be called a freeper.

You and metmom are the two biggest Catholic-hating bigots in FR. No one else comes close.

That's just it, we don't hate Catholics, just some of the false teachings of Catholicism. You can't bring yourselves to understand that your doctrines can be disputed without it meaning YOU are hated. But, I think you and Verga, as well as a few others, actually DO hate non-Catholic Christians and you can't stand it when we don't buckle under your bullying tactics and vicious name calling. What bugs you more, that we once were Catholics and know how things work there or that we remain Christians outside of the Catholic church and find fulfillment and joy in knowing Christ and living lives that glorify and honor the Lord?

You keep forgetting I was Catholic, left and came back, and I have no trouble at all recognizing bigots when I see them. I live just north of the Bible belt. There are 14 protestant churches and one Catholic Church in my town.

In the 9 years I have lived here I have never once heard anything approaching the vile spewing's that come out of metmom's computer and to a slightly lesser extent yours.

When I lived up north in another small town, there was only one church that did not ally itself with the area association of churches. That pastor sounded exactly like Metmom, saying virtually the same things word for word verbatim.

You both need to look at the log in your own eyes first.

Is it reasonable to send someone a freep mail threatening them?

I just reviewed the messages I sent to you. There was no explicit threat that I saw, but more like a hope someone would kick your ass. Oh, wait...at one point did mention that I would like to teach you a lesson in manners? You seem to have been lacking having undergone that type of learning well enough to "get it". Perhaps a little refresher course could be in order?

I did ask you for your address too, in response to yourself calling me coward, or that I wouldn't say things to your face...

You went whining like a little bitch to the moderators...

Are you worthy of being called a "freeper" If you send a freepmail saying you are going to do someone bodily harm?

Yes I am worthy, for I can be reasoned with.

Just a little while back, myself and others (was it you?) were told by a forum moderator to not discuss freepmails.

Should the person that receives such a freepmail consider it a personal attack or insult?

For your own words to myself and others on this forum, you deserve far more insult than I have ever gave you.

I have answered your questions as far as I can or will for now.

How about you? Are you going to get your own panties out of that wadded up bunch, and deal with things as an adult -- or continue to nurse grievance and make sure there is yet more animosity?

Will you deal with the information in regards to the subject matter, or keep going for the maximum pot-stirring and raising of animosity?

It’s too bad you feel that way about Scripture.

“DO hate non-Catholic Christians”

There is no such thing as a non-Catholic Christian. Protestantism is heresy.

You have a nice day now ya heah, I’m tired of corresponding with a wall, and you are the wall. You offer nothing new, just more ignorant rhetoric.

There is no such thing as a non-Catholic Christian. Protestantism is heresy.

Then it is a cult that worships dead humans instead of Jesus/God and seems to worship an earthly human institution too.

That's just it, we don't hate Catholics, just some of the false teachings of Catholicism. You can't bring yourselves to understand that your doctrines can be disputed without it meaning YOU are hated. But, I think you and Verga, as well as a few others, actually DO hate non-Catholic Christians and you can't stand it when we don't buckle under your bullying tactics and vicious name calling. What bugs you more, that we once were Catholics and know how things work there or that we remain Christians outside of the Catholic church and find fulfillment and joy in knowing Christ and living lives that glorify and honor the Lord?

You speak for me there, too. The Catholic church has no control over me. It does not own me. It has no authority over me.

My allegiance is to Christ and Him alone.

Sin is to be hated, and the lies and violence spread in the name of Christ by Catholicism in the past should be by ANYONE with any moral integrity. But clearly it isn't when it's defended, excused, and longed for, as we've seen so clearly lately.

The bloodlust demonstrated by Catholics recently is staggering.

And they think that somehow this is going to convince someone to either become a Catholic, come back to Catholicism, or convince someone that Catholicism is really following the teachings of Jesus as set forth in Matthew 5-7 in the Beatitudes?

The deception of the enemy runs deep in those cases. Instead, what we see it is defended and those pointing out the errors and hypocrisy, castigated and slandered.

So be it.

As a follower of Christ, I expect no less. He told us that this would happen. If the world hated Him, it would hate us, His followers.

John 15:18-25 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. But the word that is written in their Law must be fulfilled: ‘They hated me without a cause.’

There is no such thing as a non-Catholic Christian. Protestantism is heresy.

What's this now? Every man his own little pope? You get to decide who is and who isn't Christian in defiance of your own church teachings?

So dissenting from the Catechism lands you where, exactly?

“John 15:18-25”

He’s talking about Christians. Something you’re not. You’re a heretic controlled by the forces of darkness.

Amazingly, they declare that those who worship God through Jesus and follow the Holy Bible are not Christians unless they join some earthly institution with beads, statues, candles and incense.

Did I say it was you that did that? No certainly not. I just used your questions to ask if someone that did something like that met your criteria.

Perhaps someone has a guilty conscience, or should?

Good reply to noting in the post.

lol

Sometimes it does seem like it!

Did I say it was you that did that?

You implied as much, but mischaracterized what was really there. As is your usual habit in desperately attempting to discredit any who may oppose you.

No certainly not.

How typical. Make insinuations, then deny that you did so.

You should be banned for the type of ceaseless CRAP you indulge yourself in on these pages.

Speaking of crap, and septic tanks...are you interested in what could be the truth of the matter at Tuam?

So far, you don't seem to be, but are more interested in calling other people "liars".

If there is otherwise something specific which others said, and that you disagree with, then quote them, and provide link to that statement if it is presently off-page.

That would allow everyone to more reasonably deal with whatever it is that seems to be troubling you.

Perhaps someone has a guilty conscience, or should?

That should be you, not me. For you keep making far-reaching accusations, but are vague about any detail concerning those accusations, other than your own opinions concerning them.

In comparison, I am willing own up to what I do say, but do resent attempt to make me accountable for things which I did not say or do.

Stop the game playing. Get serious. Well...after you "get over" yourself, and your own pride.

I guess that could take a while.

Meanwhile, you truly do deserve a big fat ZOT-ola. I'm not afraid to say that.

As is your usual habit in desperately attempting to discredit any who may oppose you.

first off I would have to think of you as an opponent, and to be an opponent you would have to be worthy. Not only do I not think you are worthy, frankly I don't think of you at all.