800 babies buried in septic tank at Irish home for unmarried mothers

AFP/Dublin/Yahoo News ^ | 06/042014 | unknown

[boatbums]

Almost 800 babies and children were buried in a mass grave in Ireland near a home for unmarried mothers run by nuns, according to new research Wednesday which throws more light on the Irish Catholic Church's troubled past.

Death records suggest 796 children, from newborns to eight-year-olds, were deposited in a grave near a Catholic-run home for unmarried mothers during the 35 years it operated from 1925 to 1961.

Historian Catherine Corless, who made the discovery, says her study of death records for the St Mary's home in Tuam in County Galway suggests that a former septic tank near the home was a mass grave.

The septic tank, full to the brim with bones, was discovered in 1975 by locals when concrete slabs covering the tank broke up.

Until now, locals believed the bones mainly stemmed from the Great Irish famine of the 1840s when hundreds of thousands perished.

St Mary's, run by the Bons Secours Sisters, was one of several such 'mother and baby' homes in early 20th century Ireland.

Thousands of unmarried pregnant women -- labelled at the time as 'fallen women' -- were sent to the homes to have their babies.

The women were ostracised by the conservative-Catholic society and were often forced to hand over their children for adoption.

[verga]

for those of you not fluent in Boatbumsian I will provide a translation: WAAAAHHHH, WAAAAHHHHH, WAAAHHHHHHH!
I have read the entire thread twice, and you and metmom still come off as the whining crybabies that you are. As I told her twice; maybe you would be better off in the Religion forums where you can be protected from hearing the truth about your false (Ir)religious beliefs.

[NKP_Vet]

“I acknowledged the new information that came in after this article first appeared”

You IGNORED the Catholic League article I posted that cut the grave hoax story to shreds. You could not refute facts so you didn’t attempt to. You pretended it didn’t exist.

[verga]

When Catholics finally get tired of constantly playing defense

We are tired of it and that is why it is so great that this is not posted on the RF then we are fully within our rights to call you LIARS!

[NKP_Vet]

Read it real slow. It might sink in this time. And a personal note. You should be ashamed of yourself.

“I acknowledged the new information that came in after this article first appeared”

You IGNORED the Catholic League article I posted that cut the grave hoax story to shreds. You could not refute facts so you didn’t attempt to. You pretended it didn’t exist.

[NKP_Vet]

You and metmom are the two biggest Catholic-hating bigots in FR. No one else comes close.

[verga]

You and metmom are the two biggest Catholic-hating bigots in FR.

I agree.

No one else comes close.

This I do have to disagree with, there are several that are relatively close.

[boatbums]

Some people can’t handle the truth. What this thread has confirmed to me is that, when a story comes out that makes the Catholic church look bad, it had BETTER NOT come from a non-Catholic! Yet they will post threads every chance they get that reflects badly on “Protestants” and pile on to condemn anyone who dares defend against them. Hypocrisy in spades.

[NKP_Vet]

The threads always come from liberal websites. The kind you frequent all the time looking for anti-Catholic stories.
You really do need to stay off the Huffington Post and anything that comes from the AP.

[Elsie]

Thank you for a breath of fresh air on this otherwise fetid screed.

Now all we have to do is to polish the REST of it...

[Elsie]

Spoken like a true Catholic Church hating liberal.

Number 1...

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Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.

 

1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.

 

2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
Example: Convert or die.
 
3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.

 

4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?

 

5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
 
6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.

 

7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
 
8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.

 

9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.

 

10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
Example: Do you still beat your wife?

 

11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.

 

12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.

 

13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.

 

14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.

 

15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.

 

16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.

 

17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.

 

18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.

Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.

[Elsie]

You IGNORED the Catholic League article I posted that....

Move along; no agenda here...

[Elsie]

We are tired of it and that is why it is so great that this is not posted on the RF then we are fully within our rights to call you LIARS!

Beats being called a mackerel snapper I guess...

[Elsie]

This I do have to disagree with, there are several that are relatively close.

Aw...  shucks...

 

[Elsie]

Over the past month, the public has been treated to a series of news stories alleging that Irish nuns threw almost 800 babies into a septic tank outside a home for “fallen women” and children in the 20th century. As it turns out, the “mass grave” story is a hoax.

To read Bill Donohue’s article, “Ireland’s ‘Mass Grave’ Hysteria,” click here. It is being widely distributed in Ireland, England, and the United States.

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To be sure, the abuse scandal should never have happened, and there is much blame to go around. But Catholics strong in the faith know that it was not the teachings of the Catholic Church that failed us, it was the teachers; the molesting priests and their enabling bishops were to blame. Had these priests followed their vows instead of their id, they would have behaved differently. The scandal, however, in no way justifies talk about "brainwashing." Indeed, that tag could well be used to describe those who claim the nuns abused women in the laundries. But that would also be an unwarranted characterization.

---

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I think something might be more thoroughly debunked if less 'could have' and 'would have' and 'should have' phrases were used.

 

Speculation abounds on BOTH ends of the spectrum it seems.

[Elsie]

You will know them by their fruits.

Know Who?

[boatbums]

Come onto “Smoky Backroom” threads and reveal your true character.

[boatbums]

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.

Even in the Smoky Backroom, this warning is STILL there.

What you SHOULD be tired of is the atrocities committed in the name of your religion, yet you aren't. The rest of us are weary of the knee-jerk, defend at all cost, kill the messenger reactions that come from you guys. Maybe you could point out where I lied anywhere in this thread? You can't. It's just another opportunity for you to vent your stored up acrimony and hatred towards those who refuse to buckle to your demands for obedience and fealty to your church. I know desperation when I see it. It won't work. My salvation is secured in Jesus Christ and your religion offers NOTHING that I want or need. You can't bully us. That's probably what eats at you the most. Too bad.

[boatbums]

Can’t point out all the lies I’ve supposedly told? Because mocking and ridiculing don’t cut it.

[boatbums]

LOL! Now who's WAAAAHHHH, WAAAAHHHHH, WAAAHHHHHHHing???

[verga]

Come onto “Smoky Backroom” threads and reveal your true character.

Well we know you two are characters but don't have any.