Posted on 07/21/2007 5:18:11 PM PDT by JenB
So you finally know what happens to Harry. All our questions are answered. Or not. What are your reactions? Whose death hurt the most? Do you want more, and about whom?
SPOILERS are ok on this thread! You have been warned!
Wow. It's over.
BUT, HP never used dark magic knowingly
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He used cruciatus on Carrow when Carrow spat in McGonigall’s face.
Mrs VS
One thing I wish Rowling had spent a little time on, was the power of perception, as it relates to the Hallows -- the Elder Wand in particular. It seems to me that although the objects in question did have amazing properties, it was people's perceptions that inflated them into something worthy of "the quest" to find them.
Did the Elder Wand really confer such great power, or was the perception of it such that wizards of great power were drawn to it, and led by their greed into killing others to get it?
For example, did the wand really make Grindelwald powerful, or was he already powerful, but made reckless by his perception that the wand made him invulnerable? Somewhere in the book Rowling talks about how a lack of restraint made some wizard or other extra-dangerous....
Voldemort apparently didn't even know the story of the Three Brothers, much less the Deathly Hallows -- he'd just heard about this supposedly all-powerful wand. It was no doubt a really excellent one, but how much of its power was due to that of the wizard holding it, and how much of how it was used, was due to the holder's perception of what the wand could do?
As you note, the only one of the three items that Harry actually used for anything active, was the cape. The ring played no essential role, and the wand was employed against him. Harry basically won without being a master of all three Hallows.
The underlying message seems to be the same as the Dumbledore passed on in Book 1: that it's our choices that define what we are. Harry's choices made him the winner against Voldemort, not his hardware.
If you have something you want to contribute to the discussion- other then we are all a bunch of idiots for reading books that you don’t approve of- then we would love to hear it.
If you are just here to bash us and bash the series, then please move along. No one is suddenly going to go, “Oh my God! Neoliberalnot is right! They ARE dumb!”
And, once again, thanks for bumping our thread!
It kind of gets down to the core of magical power in the HP universe. One of the lessons from the first few chapters SS is that the “stuff” of magic is unnecessary. Remember Harry makes his hair go back the way he likes it and makes the window disappear without even knowing what a wizard is, no wand, no training, just will power and wishful thinking. Wizards in the HP universe seem to be able to just make stuff go, sure they mostly use their wands for big things but the wands aren’t totally necessary, words are good for focus but they’re even trained in how to cast silently, plenty of “throw away” magic is done throughout the series with no wands, words or even gestures of any kind. All that stuff is a crutch to help the wizard focus. Even non-throw away stuff now that I think a little more, notice there’s no wandwork or words to go with animagus stuff, they just change, that’s probably why it’s considered so hard, it’s big magic to start with but it’s completely crutchless.
And then there’s the psych out factor, a lot of the training the kids seem to go through, especially the Dumbledore’s Army training but other stuff to, is largely to believe that they can do it. Most of the setbacks they have early in any training come from lack of belief.
Which brings it all back to the Hallows, especially the Elder Wand. I think most of the power of the Elder Wand comes from the psych out, and the personal belief. I think the wielder of the Elder Wand gets a boost of confidence, and people facing them get psyched out. This would also explain why the “rules” of the Elder Wand are so inconsistent, if the wielder is over confident and their opponent refuses to be psyched out then the “unbeatable wand” becomes pretty beatable. It’s probably nothing more than a really good wand (whatever that means), maybe with a few standing spells on it that make the holder more resistant to certain things. But given that magic is so belief and willpower driven a wand with a kickass rep is worth a lot, even if there’s nothing at all special about it.
That message was set up with Kreacher in the kitchen talking about trying to destroy the locket.
For so many people talking about Harry Potter NOT being "real" literature, we happen to find an awful lot of depth to it.
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He used cruciatus on Carrow when Carrow spat in McGonigall’s face.
Mrs VS
And notice how she didn't bat an eye about it. She tells him it was foolish to come back to school and then to defend her. At no point does she have any problem with him using one of the three unforgivable curses on a Death Eater. In fact, she proceeds then to use another unforgivable curse on him.
Since there's no talk about any sort of bad consequences for either of them, Rowling actually makes a pretty strong statement about what must be done in time of war.
We don't see any good wizards using Avada Kedavra, but I'd love to know what the fsck Mrs. Weasley used on Bellatrix. Loud, messy, and just slow enough so that they know they're being killed.
I'm nearly certain that Crookshanks is mentioned as being at the Burrow around the time of the wedding.
Someone already called me on that.....I concede and have to re-read that part of the book. Happened in Ravenclaw’s tower didn’t it?
supposedly it was Merope who did magic late in life.
I guess I’m the weird one. I wasn’t all that happy with this book, nor was I with the 6th.
I kinda lost my joy for this Universe in the 5th book when JKR killed Sirius. I had just lost one of my 4-legged kids, and one month to the day after losing him, my Godfather.
To me, this book was the story of Severus Snape, not Harry Potter.
I didn’t like the epilogue, and I hated that poor Remus, who never was really shown that much was killed off screen. I mean, couldn’t just one of the Marauders make it to old age, and die a natural death? Would that have been just too much to ask?
Maybe I’ve become jaded, but I doubt I’ll return to the Wizarding World for a re-read ever again.
taglines....
I've been thinking about magic in HPworld, the same way I think about woodworking.
This wand discussion would be be something like the difference between good and poor woodworking tools. The tools do make a difference in the finished product -- good ones do a lot to enhance precision and smoothness of line. But just having good tools doesn't really mean much if the person using them is an idiot.
The real "magic" of woodworking still depends on the person using the tools. Patience, ability, training, practice, and a sense of the art of it, are among the many personal factors that make the difference between a hacked up bunch of boards, and a really nice piece of furniture.
He also used the Imperius Curse at Gringotts.
Since there's no talk about any sort of bad consequences for either of them, Rowling actually makes a pretty strong statement about what must be done in time of war.
Using Unforgiveable Curses on Death Eaters might be justified, but I don't see the justification for using an Unforgiveable Curse at Gringotts. I'm pretty certain the Imperius Curse is unforgiveable, isn't it?
Also, I wonder why none of the other wizards throughout the world never came to the aid of the British wizards after Voldemort and the Death Eaters had taken over? For example, the wizards and witches from Beauxbatons in France?
Kind of makes the whole Tri Wizard tournament seem pointless doesn't it? Isn't the whole point of the Tri Wizard tournament supposed to be "international magical cooperation"?
I guess the next Tri Wizard tournament will be somewhat strained, with all the Hogwarts students and faculty saying to the other schools, "thanks for nothing with that whole Voldemort war, as$holes!"
The whole flaw in the Voldemort plan, and the machinations of Dumbledore, was the Riddle would take Potter's blood, so he could breach the Lilly Potter shield, but at the same time, take a piece of Harry with him, to protect him when he had to be killed by Voldemort.
By dying, he killed off the 7th horocrux - himself - and allowed Moldy Voldy to lower his defenses.
This let Nevill kill the 6th - Nagini - and the final battle.
Well who knows what they were dealing with. We get a very tunnel vision view of the HP world, lots of stuff can happen outside the scope. Maybe there were French Death Eaters who kept surrendering in droves and totally bogged down the French wizarding bureaucracy.
Yeah there’s probably a lot of feel to it, and probably whatever the health of the magic creature with a part in the wand matters. But I still think it’s mostly in the head of the user, just like the woodworking tools, if you ain’t got the juice what’s in your hand don’t matter.
There hasn’t been much discussion on this thread about the Malfoy’s. What do you guys think about how JKR tied up their story line? I can see Narcissa and Draco being redeemable but what about Lucius?
The sequel to the series will probably include Draco’s son. Wonder who Draco married?
Pansy Parkinson of course!
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