Evolution's bottom line

National Center for Science Education ^ | 12 May 2006 | Staff

[PatrickHenry]

In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples.

In places where evolution education is undermined, he argues, it isn't only students who will be the poorer for it: "Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?" He concludes, "Where science gets done is where wealth gets created, so places that decide to put stickers on their textbooks or change the definition of science have decided, perhaps unknowingly, not to go to the innovation party of the future. Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina.

[donh]

Has that question in fact been addressed in good faith in the sources you rely upon?

Let me yet again suggest googling up Red Queen, or altruistic behavior. I'll find you some double blind, refereed material, as soon as you show me the double-blind, refereed material that demonstrates that all queer behavior uniformly degrades reproductive success.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"(snickering on behalf of the Roman catholics you just said were dishonest)."

I said no such thing. Why do you insist on making things up?

YOU on the other hand said this:

"The thing that penetrates the fog to my way of thinking is the fact that Hitler was Roman Catholic and Rome embraces Darwinism. Darwinism is, bottom line, racist as Darwin's original title for 'origin of the species' shows. Rome and Hitler both supported Darwin. Rome and Hitler both supported replacement theology. And Hitler was a dyed in the wool racist just as Darwin *appears* to have been. Rome had already much earlier in History been a plague to the Jews." Darwin just Gave Hitler another excuse. Go figure." (Havoc)

You're an anti_Catholic bigot, and even a cursory look at your posting record bears this out.

[Havoc]

Thanks, mjoinir. I knew that; but, it isn't about Catholicism. The point being made was about Darwinism specifically. Just never know when the theatrics will come out.. lol

[grey_whiskers]

Faggotry is not an exclusive commitment in most humans, why would you think it would be?

Not to hear the participants in "gay pride" marches. ;-)

Again, you could look this up under altruist, or Red Queen theory.

Haven't had time yet--I was up till 1:30 in the morning FReeping, and I'm off for a 25 mile bike ride within 10 minutes.

I'll get to it--but the name does lend itself to certain abuses.

Since this means most human sex does not bear fruit, recreational sex should have been eliminated from the gene pool long ago, according to your spartan prescription for genetic survival, right?

Depends on the extent to which it is practiced. Consider the population statistics for Russia and Western Europe for example.

The survival of beta males is advantageous to a tribe in a crowded and stressful environment where warriors are worth keeping around and feeding.

Or as C.S. Lewis said, "All those hairy toughs of centurions in Tacitus weeping and begging for one last kiss when the legion was being broken up...all pansies? If you can believe that then you can believe anything." Just kidding, point registered, but I haven't read up on it enough to have made up my mind. Thanks for pointing out the subject, and the links.

Cheers!

[metmom]

The idea that woman are equal in value is Scriptural. It was around long before Darwin.

Eph 5:25-33

25. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26. to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27. and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church--
30. for we are members of his body.
31. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."
32. This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.
33. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


NIV Galatians 3:26-29
26. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
27. for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Difference in function doesn't mean difference in value or humanness.

[donh]

It's also beyond doubt that, as in all wars, the Crusaders committed atrocities. But it should be remebered that the Crusades were a defensive action against the the attempt on the part of the world that ws Islamic to conquer the rest of it

The moslems of the time of the crusades were not a credible threat to europe. They were a threat to Turkey, and the Eastern Orthodox, that was not entirely undeserved, and the recovery of the holy land to christian hands was, of course, the frequently avowed real aim--defending eastern christendom, with whom little in the way of christian brotherhood had until then been observed, was the convenient excuse.

[grey_whiskers]

I'll find you some double blind, refereed material, as soon as you show me the double-blind, refereed material that demonstrates that all queer behavior uniformly degrades reproductive success.

Don't have to. As you noted in an earlier post, it's blindingly obvious, which is why gay pride marchers don't clamor for men to be able to obtain abortions.

But as far as a social construct contributing to survival in other ways, yeah, I see your point.

I'm off biking now before it reaches 100 degrees.

Cheers!

[Skooz]

Much like George Washington. Yet the suggestion he wasn't a Christian is hotly denied by Freepers.

George Washington was not Catholic. So, that is nonsensical.

[Skooz]

I have two coworkers who were baptized in a Catholic church, never renounced Catholicism, never converted to another faith, and have never been excommunicated.

They're both atheists.

[mjolnir]

Gibbon and Darwin are both great writers. However, the cheering Gibbon gives to the persecution of Christians by Marcus Aurelius (in other respects a great man) is pretty shameful. His theories about the fall of the Empire are original and true, but where they are true (the loss of civic virtue) they are unoriginal and where original (Christianity killed the Empire) they are not true. Still, Decline and Fall makes for great reading, as you say. I wish "Gladiator" has stuck closer to the facts therein.

[Havoc]

I didn't make anything up. You seem to be assuming you see all the conversations that take place with regard to these threads.

As for being an 'anti-catholic' bigot. No. I'm a pro-Christian Zealot with a comparative religion background and tend to debunk people who claim they follow Christianity while following philosophy instead. That would include cults such as those listed in Dr. Walter Martin's "Kingdom Of the Cults" - Martin being the foremost expert on cults up to the time of his passing. It would also include groups that espouse doctrine that directly contradicts scripture and the like. That would, in point of fact, include Catholicism and it's schizmatic brother, Roman Rite Catholicism. You call me a bigot because I debunk you. And it's not that I'm actually a bigot, it's that you're mad and want to act out because I call you on it. But this is hardly the place for that discussion. And you've betrayed why you misread what I said - because you wanted to for theatrics.. to come after me as it were. You knew my posting history before I posted and you pounced to color the discussion. Typical. Cruising for a fight...

Like I said, your rope, your train. Get over yourself.

[donh]

Since this means most human sex does not bear fruit, recreational sex should have been eliminated from the gene pool long ago, according to your spartan prescription for genetic survival, right?

Depends on the extent to which it is practiced. Consider the population statistics for Russia and Western Europe for example.

You have some statistics on the relative frequency of recreational vs. procreative sex in Russia and Western Europe? How was it gathered?

[r9etb]

It's design by humans. It does NOT, in any way, have anything to do with ID as proposed by ID'ers.

It is, nevertheless, ID -- despite whatever strawman you want to build for what "ID'ers" propose.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"I didn't make anything up."

Yes you did. You said I said that some Roman Catholics were lying. I said no such thing, at all. You made it up.

"As for being an 'anti-catholic' bigot. No"

Yes, you are.

"That would include cults such as those listed in Dr. Walter Martin's "Kingdom Of the Cults" - Martin being the foremost expert on cults up to the time of his passing. It would also include groups that espouse doctrine that directly contradicts scripture and the like. That would, in point of fact, include Catholicism and it's schizmatic brother, Roman Rite Catholicism."

There, you don't even try to cover it up.

"You call me a bigot because I debunk you."

No, because your attack on Catholicism is based on hatred.

"And you've betrayed why you misread what I said - because you wanted to for theatrics.. to come after me as it were."

I misread nothing. You quite clearly and unambiguously linked Catholicism with Hitler's ideas and racism.

"You knew my posting history before I posted and you pounced to color the discussion."

I've seen your anti-Catholic bigotry before.

"Cruising for a fight... "

You threw the first punch when you linked Catholicism with racism and Hitler's ideas.

For the lurkers, here is what Havoc said:

"The thing that penetrates the fog to my way of thinking is the fact that Hitler was Roman Catholic and Rome embraces Darwinism. Darwinism is, bottom line, racist as Darwin's original title for 'origin of the species' shows. Rome and Hitler both supported Darwin. Rome and Hitler both supported replacement theology. And Hitler was a dyed in the wool racist just as Darwin *appears* to have been. Rome had already much earlier in History been a plague to the Jews." Darwin just Gave Hitler another excuse. Go figure."

[donh]

I'll find you some double blind, refereed material, as soon as you show me the double-blind, refereed material that demonstrates that all queer behavior uniformly degrades reproductive success.

Don't have to. As you noted in an earlier post, it's blindingly obvious, which is why gay pride marchers don't clamor for men to be able to obtain abortions.

I'll match my non-peer-reviewed opinions to yours anytime.

But as far as a social construct contributing to survival

Homosexuality is not a social construct, in any manner obvious to me. In humans, it is a hormonal onset response to trigger events, usually stressful. I parenthetically note--quite often an exquisitely appropriate one, as it enhances the immediate survival value of the so afflicted. Do you think it's better for your long term survival as a young prison inmate to give in to your 280 lb paramore, or to fight to the death to defend your honor, and the sanctity of your poop shoot?

I'm off biking now before it reaches 100 degrees.

Have fun and stay safe.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"It is, nevertheless, ID -- despite whatever strawman you want to build for what "ID'ers" propose."

But it isn't the intelligent design that ID'ers claim. ID'ers don't actually design... anything. Biotech companies do. ID'ers claim to have a means to detect design in the universe... yet none of their methods work. Biotech people simply do the designs; their work has absolutely nothing to do with how the universe was formed, or how life evolved.

[Physicist]

Since you apparently agree with spreading the notion that Hitler was a Christian...

Nice try, but I'm not giving you a two-fer.

[donh]

It's an open forum. If you don't want people picking up on comments you made, use FReepmail.

I didn't rudely reject having an argument with you, you rudely rejected having an argument with me. You did not "pick on" my comments, you dismissed them, calling me a troll. So I return the compliment--as you've demonstrated before, your posts tend to be pretty uniformly shallow, facile, and dismissive. To "pick on" some comment I had made would require reading it for understanding with serious intent, and that tends to be not your forte'.

[mjolnir]

"Not entirely undeserved?"

Are you serious?

Islamic expansionism was "no threat to Europe"??!!

have you heard of Spain?!

Islamic forces took over had conquered almost all of most of Southern and Central Iberia by 716! Remember, Islam had only started in the seventh century!

The Islamic Jihad threatened the Arab lands, Persia, China, India, Egypt, the Sudanese, the Berbers, the Franks (French), the Sicilians,the Turks (as you admit)all before it had even reached its third century of existence!

Quite frankly, we should not only thank the Crusaders, but Genghis Khan! Attacking the Mongols was the biigest mistake the jihadists made--- Khan's counter attack was far more effective than that of the Crusaders.