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To: mjolnir
It's also beyond doubt that, as in all wars, the Crusaders committed atrocities. But it should be remebered that the Crusades were a defensive action against the the attempt on the part of the world that ws Islamic to conquer the rest of it

The moslems of the time of the crusades were not a credible threat to europe. They were a threat to Turkey, and the Eastern Orthodox, that was not entirely undeserved, and the recovery of the holy land to christian hands was, of course, the frequently avowed real aim--defending eastern christendom, with whom little in the way of christian brotherhood had until then been observed, was the convenient excuse.

606 posted on 05/13/2006 7:15:05 AM PDT by donh
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To: donh


"Not entirely undeserved?"

Are you serious?

Islamic expansionism was "no threat to Europe"??!!

have you heard of Spain?!

Islamic forces took over had conquered almost all of most of Southern and Central Iberia by 716! Remember, Islam had only started in the seventh century!

The Islamic Jihad threatened the Arab lands, Persia, China, India, Egypt, the Sudanese, the Berbers, the Franks (French), the Sicilians,the Turks (as you admit)all before it had even reached its third century of existence!

Quite frankly, we should not only thank the Crusaders, but Genghis Khan! Attacking the Mongols was the biigest mistake the jihadists made--- Khan's counter attack was far more effective than that of the Crusaders.


620 posted on 05/13/2006 7:40:31 AM PDT by mjolnir ("All great change in America begins at the dinner table.")
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To: donh
The moslems of the time of the crusades were not a credible threat to europe.

Come again?

I am thinking the Battle of Tours in 732, and that that Spain was only completely recovered by Christendom the same year as Columbus discovered America. If you discount Spain as the heart of Europe, we'll agree; but Islam was a pretty major threat to Europe for quite some time.

Consider that the Ottoman Turks nearly took Vienna in 1683. You know, more than eighty years after Shakespeare died; if things had gone otherwise, the Muslims could've taken out both Pachelbel and Bach.

Sobering thought, that, for those who deny the danger of Islam resurgent in modern times.

Cheers!

654 posted on 05/13/2006 10:16:17 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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